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Old 03-25-2021, 05:45 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Here's something that surpasses my nderstanding.



A wind/electric hybrid that is pushed forward by quartering winds.
You've not sailed a boat? Sail boats can head into the wind, up to about 40 degrees of true wind direction. When I sailed a 14 foot catamaran, a very long time ago, the cat was fastest with wind at right-angles to my direction of travel, what is called a beam reach.

The trouble with a road vehicle though, is that the direction of travel is constrained by the road, so you can't tack for example.


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Old 03-25-2021, 07:32 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Well, that's part of it. Also, the diagram shows the sail has reach. The windmobile is a fixed airfoil.

(I've not)
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Old 03-26-2021, 09:27 AM   #23 (permalink)
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For a while John Roncz was designing sail/wings/turbine blades that would generate thrust in conditions typical sails cannot. I didn't understand the mechanisms then and still don't but I can see why those style airfoils could be used on vehicles if you accept the penalties for sub-optimal direction.
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Old 03-26-2021, 10:17 AM   #24 (permalink)
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official numbers on COSWORTH upper wing

Pages 96 and 99 of the May, 1993 issue of AUTOMOBILE Magazine provided some FoMoCo numbers for the Ford ESCORT RS Cosworth.
* The upper wing degraded the Cd from 0.34, to 0.38.
* Top speed was reduced from 145 mph, to 140 mph.
* @ 110 mph, the car developed 10-pounds front downforce, and 37-pounds rear downforce.
* Over 200- hours were spent in the Ford of Cologne, Germany wind tunnel to aerodynamically tune the car for the downforce and engine turbocharger cooling.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As an aside, I applied Hucho's, December, 1986, rule-of-thumb for delta-Cd vs delta- Top Speed.
The result's accuracy was over 98%.
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Old 03-26-2021, 10:33 AM   #25 (permalink)
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fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Well, that's part of it. Also, the diagram shows the sail has reach. The windmobile is a fixed airfoil.

(I've not)
There would be a spectra of relative wind angles at which the airfoils would generate enough lift to propel the car. Otherwise she'd be dead on the ground.
The Lubbock Avalanche Journal carried a story about this windmobile being stopped by Department of Public Safety patrolman for speeding. The driver was a 'foreigner' and had misinterpreted the US State Highway-82 sign as the posted SPEED LIMIT. The patrolman didn't cite him, just explained the situation.
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Old 03-28-2021, 04:14 AM   #26 (permalink)
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A couple old threads where we make mention of the car in question.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tml#post517762
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
Here's the Sierra variant

Here's a comparison with the XR4Ti

Ford claims Cd 0.32 with,0.34 without.
On a pickup you'd want some sort of tonneau cover for the flow to reattach to,as on a notchback car.This is how Chrysler can get it's Dodge RAM 1500 to Cd 0.36.

Curbside Classic: 1986 Merkur XR4TI – What’s In A Name?
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curb...ats-in-a-name/
Quote:
The rear bi-plane spoiler looked rather silly and was cut back to one tier by ’88.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...-16550-16.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by kach22i View Post

EDIT-1: I think this is related to the same general topic.

http://www.merkurencyclopedia.com/Me.../aerodyne.html
Quote:
In a nutshell, the information shared with me by the Ford aerodynamic office in Dearborn, (data from the FOG wind tunnel) indicates that there is no negative lift (down force) generated by the bi plane nor the single wing aero package. The bi plane wing is an adaption from Fords first aero research vehicle done in Germany in the mid 70's. It had the biplane wings and the look in the backlite and C pillars. The car also had active aero skirts and front spoilers...etc etc. very very advanced. The bi plane wing is designed purely for reduction of drag only. For its time the XR4 has extremly low drag numbers. .328 for production ride height bone stock car. With a frontal area of 21 sq feet (same as mustang) our cars are rather slippery. The engineers and stylists did an excellent job of working together for some good comprimises.
Merkur XR4Ti biplane spoiler
http://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbs...ats-in-a-name/


https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tml#post517797
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentring View Post
This article has an image of the Ford Sierra being tested.

Quote:
Aerodynamics was the keyword when developing the new family car. The engineers and designers worked hard to make the car more fuel efficient, better to drive and more cost-effective to produce. To achieve all this, Ford people in Cologne spent over 2.8 billion Deutsche Marks (approximately the same amount in dollars today) for the development of the Sierra. Searching for the most aerodynamic shape, Heinz Ostendorf and his team spent more than 75 days in the wind tunnel testing all the design ideas. People were working hard in the Daimler-Benz Windkanal in Stuttgart, as they were guests in the facility, and only the costs of renting it amounted to 1.2 million Deutsche Marks. Every idle minute spent there was like throwing money in the huge fans of the wind generator.
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Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html

Last edited by kach22i; 03-28-2021 at 04:29 AM..
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Old 03-28-2021, 04:39 AM   #27 (permalink)
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journal article
The New Ford Aerodynamic Wind Tunnel in Europe
Rüdiger H. Volkert and Wigbert R. Kohl
https://www.jstor.org/stable/44470081?seq=1
Quote:
Abstract

The necessity for improved vehicle fuel economy had been one of the prime motivators in the construction of Ford of Europe's new aerodynamic windtunnel in Cologne, Germany. The Product Development Group obtained approval for the construction of a $ 10 million open test section aerodynamic facility in 1980. The windtunnel was launched after a 4 year's design and engineering period with DSMA, Toronto/Canada, in April 1984. This paper describes the new facility capable of developing both scale and full size models at comparable Reynolds–numbers. This is made possible through the use of removable inserts in the test section.







Quote:
SAE Transactions
Vol. 96, Section 1 (1987), pp. 964-992 (29 pages)
Published By: SAE International
NOTE TO SELF: To get the images above, use Google images with search term "Ford Probe X | Cunningham ID" click on first "ecomodder" image link, then see related images in far to the right side dialog box and scroll down.
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Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html

Last edited by kach22i; 03-28-2021 at 04:47 AM..
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Old 03-28-2021, 04:55 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Related?

I did a still screenshot of the video.

#2295. Ford probe 3 1981 (Prototype Car)
https://www.arcar.org/video-video-video-u0egl-suh0y


https://www.imcdb.org/v594864.html


https://www.aronline.co.uk/cars/ford...pment-history/
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1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html

Last edited by kach22i; 03-28-2021 at 05:14 AM..
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Old 03-28-2021, 05:25 AM   #29 (permalink)
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About half way down in the comments section is perhaps a clue to Ford's concern for extra down-force at speed?


https://www.aronline.co.uk/cars/ford...pment-history/
Quote:
MM says:
17 January 2013 at 12.54 pm

The Sierra was not a “good” car, certainly the early ones.
Had a new Sierra 1.6 from the dealer while the Mk V Cortina was being serviced.

The instability ot 70mph on the motorway was truly frightening, zig zag zig zag from white line to white line.

Recall the Sierra write offs due to shell buckle? Minor accidents made them irrepairable. Neil Kinnock, Labour party leader made the news after his Sierra accident, loss of control on a motorway, that infamous lane to lane weave again.

The Sierra was just a Friday afternoon car, cobbled together and released too soon on the guinea pig public to face the Vauxhall FWD Cavalier and Astra cars, both of which were vastly superior to the Ford offerings
Reply

..............................................

Will M says:
17 January 2013 at 1.06 pm

What was the fix for the stability problems? Solely the rearmost side window spoilers?

The similarly aerodynamic Audi TT had similar issues which led to spoilers being fitted to all models
Porsche Pete's Boxster Board :: Archives of PPBB
(nobody mentions this though, as it is german).

.......................

Comical_Engineer says:
14 April 2013 at 4.40 pm

I remember the advert and how much of a laugh it gave us. The Sierra was a sheep in wolfs clothing other than the Cossies. The early ones were an amorphous jelly mould and fairly ugly. The later model Sapphire was a lot better looking but, TBH, none of them were very pleasant inside.

I used to get 1.6L’s on hire from Hertz and they were a complete nightmare on a wet and windy motorway. I actually took one back totally convinced that there was a problem with the steering. The reply was “they’re all like that”. Afterwards I used to put on my hire forms “NOT A SIERRA”.

The fitment of the small strakes behind the rear window and changes to the wheel trims helped but the Sierra was never the most stable in any sort of crosswind. The Sapphires were again better than the hatch in this department. As for the engines, the 1.6 Pinto was just about adequate but the 1.8CVH had a terrible reputation for reliability never mind that they were all harsh and noisy. (CVH = Constant Vibration & Harshness in one of the car mags, and they were right).

Basic spec ones weren’t a bundle of joy inside either and missed out on many useful “toys” that the Ghias got as standard. My experience was that the Sierra was nowhere as good as the Mk2 Cavalier – at least, I know which I would rather have had!
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1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html
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Old 03-29-2021, 04:34 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Probably just downforce. Possibly, a mix of both? I don’t doubt that the cars would need some aid for stability, but the double wing on that Probe concept raises questions; I’m sure they weren’t looking for downforce.

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