Ford what are you thinking?

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by cbaber

Truck buyers here in the US don't want V6's or small diesels. And why would they? GMC delivers the same fuel economy in their 5.3 V8 4x4 as the Ford 3.5 Ecoboost V6. Most truck buyers are going to go with the V8, because it's a V8.

Car buyers here in the US don't want small diesels or anything smaller than a V8. And why would they? Fords V8 Crown VIC delivers the same fuel economy as a 80's V6 Chrysler lebaron.

So obviously there would be absolutely no market for a 4 cylinder car or a small diesel car or a hybrid.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by some_other_dave

Have you seen the freeways in the past decade? I think at least 3/4 of the pickup trucks out there are commuter vehicles in disguise...

-soD

I can count the times on one hand that i have seen a "work truck" of a 1/2 ton variety with anything of any significance in the back around here in oshkosh.

though i have actually seen loaded up suburbans around town often.

[cbaber]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

Car buyers here in the US don't want small diesels or anything smaller than a V8. And why would they? Fords V8 Crown VIC delivers the same fuel economy as a 80's V6 Chrysler lebaron.

So obviously there would be absolutely no market for a 4 cylinder car or a small diesel car or a hybrid.

Buying a truck vs buying a car is a very different purchase, so translating my point over to cars doesn't make sense, as you pointed out in your sarcasm. Even though 9/10 truck owners don't use the truck for work, buyers accept that they are going to give up fuel economy for towing and hauling capabilities. With that in mind, the V8 has the benefit of 1.) Power 2.) Great Sound and as my post pointed out 3.) Fuel Economy

We are talking about full size trucks here, not cars. Full size trucks need lots of power and torque to perform their intended tasks, where as cars are more flexible. As the truck size and capability goes down, the engine choices go up. For example the Ford Ranger, S10, Tacoma, etc. It's not that Americans are not willing to buy a 4 cyl or V6 truck, but we are talking the full size segment which has different needs. With cars their purposes vary widely, and thus the engines vary wildly. A 4 cylinder turbocharged engine tuned for 500 HP could power a Corvette, but would people buy it if it didn't have a V8? Luxury cars and full size sedans could do with a V6 or supercharged I4, but in that market buyers expect the bigger motors. I'm not saying Americans prefer big engines in every segment of the auto market, I am saying that with full size trucks. I think if you look at sales over the years, and just observe how many trucks have aftermarket exhaust systems to highlight the V8, you will understand.

[niky]

Turbodiesels have a lot of hauling torque. That's what makes them attractive for long-haul trucking and industrial machinery.

The drawbacks are the high cost of the fuel delivery and emissions systems for modern diesels. In other markets, diesels are entrenched enough so that absorbing these costs is second nature. (just as absorbing the extra cost for direct-injection gasoline engines over there is apparently not a problem, where here, they're having a hard time penetrating, despite the abundance of modern diesels) Then there's the differing price, incentive and tax structures of fuels and automobiles outside the US, which also leads to greater acceptance of diesels.

As for truck sizes... that's a politically charged topic. Most of the world gets along with merely compact/midsized pick-ups, where in the US, this is a niche market. The cancelling of the Ranger, which was the biggest seller in this niche, could be seen as a admission of the poor profitability (and thus, market acceptance) of this niche or it could be seen as a cynical exercise in marketing... protecting the sales of Ford's volume-selling F150... as the new Ranger is now as big as the previous-generation F150. US HD trucks serve a market that's largely non-existent outside, which is why they are a uniquely American thing.

Then you get to the politics of chicken tax* and tow/payload ratings**, which, whatever your opinion of them, do help US automakers push customers up into bigger trucks with easier CAFE targets and higher profit margins. Not that displacement / CO2 / differential fuel taxes outside the US don't subsidize and push truck buyers into diesel midsizers, mind you.

While admittedly, there are people who do need the abilities of full-sized pick-ups, most hauling can be done by smaller, if the market structure allowed it, and most buyers don't even need a pick-up in the first place. But that's true of the pick-up (and large car) market everywhere, not just the US.

In the end, though, even if you evened out the playing field and removed all market distorting taxes, Americans are going to be buying full-sized trucks instead of small ones, and global buyers are going to be buying small/midsized trucks instead of full-sized ones. And that's that.




-----

*Worth thousands per unit unless you circumvent it by bolting in extra seats and ruining the rust protection of the pick-up bed. But with the government going after Ford and trying to tell them loophole exploitation as done with the Transit Connect is illegal, fat chance that's going to be viable in the future.

**Trucks in the US have lower payload ratings for their size than elsewhere, even if payload ratings are the same for non-truck vehicles. Hard to say whether that's an under-rating or over-rating happening on one side or the other, but in my experience, global platforms seem to be much more stiffly sprung and damped than US tucks, which might mean it's all down to market localization.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by niky

In the end, though, even if you evened out the playing field and removed all market distorting taxes, Americans are going to be buying full-sized trucks instead of small ones, and global buyers are going to be buying small/midsized trucks instead of full-sized ones. And that's that

If the fuel prices were evened out, they'd come screaming for 2.0 to 2.5L inline 4s in a "truck".

And triple or quadruple the EM flock in days ...

[niky]

Who knows? If we paid less fuel taxes, we might actually consider going for them thar' V8s... Of course, lower fuel taxes doesn't make up for the huge difference in earning power versus Americans...

[Toe_cutter]

I would never want to be a part of any product labeled "PowerStroke" except the 7.3. I'd rather pay more at the pump than have to replace my _______ (insert random really expensive engine part) every year or two........

[slownugly]

cbaber is right. i see it every friggin day here in pennsyl-tucky. i cant even begin to tell you how many poor people pull into our shop with big expeditions/ jeeps/ trucks etc. then complain about fixing expensive stuff on their vehicle. sometimes i just want to smack myself in the face when they talk.

[E.Roy]

I think we may start seeing more "small" diesels in trucks with the advent of the CRD Ram, and Nissan and maybe Toyota partnering with Cummins for their 5.0 TT

[Jethro]

Cough Cough
2014 RAM 1500 EcoDiesel V6 | Diesel Engine Truck | RAM Trucks

Ram 1500 Eco Diesel.
Class leading aerodynamics (active grill shutters even!), 8 speed transmission and a modern common rail diesel.

My 2500 Crew Cab might be traded in for one in 2015 if they prove their muster.