Forget the hydrogen economy, go methanol!

[UFO]

All of the current US transportation needs can be handled with algal biodiesel. Methanol is actually not nearly as energy dense as normal liquid fuel, however if a fuel cell can be made to be as efficient as you claim it could perhaps claim the same range as the same volume of biodiesel in an ICE. By the way, diesel engines currently are 40% thermally efficient, and combined with a hybrid technology can be even better. What's not to like about solar energy, be it biodiesel or methanol? There is room for both, and we don't have to sacrifice our water, our climate or our arable land.

[Air-Hybrid]

Originally Posted by UFO

What's not to like about solar energy, be it biodiesel or methanol? There is room for both, and we don't have to sacrifice our water, our climate or our arable land.

I agree. There is nothing to dislike about capturing sunlight to turn it efficiently into fuel; liquid fuel especially. But I struggle to understand where all this algal biodiesel is going to appear from overnight - ? .. I should reiterate that methanol predominately from NatGas should pragmatically only be viewed as a stopgap whilst other renewable streams are encouraged to fulfil the longer term demand.

...A couple of points:
Are diesels "40% thermally efficient" for the averaged load conditions found in real-world driving? ...I suspect not [though obviously hybridisation can go some way to countering this].

Can you provide support for claiming that "All of the current US transportation needs can be handled with algal biodiesel" ? - So there is enough recoverable 'waste water' within her boarders (plus enough unused land) to process the millions of gallons of algae needed then? If your assertion is actually heavily focused on developing foreign processing 'ponds' as sources, what happens then? And what of the rest of the world; as it's needs expand?


"There is room for both, and we don't have to sacrifice our water, our climate or our arable land." - That's how I feel too, but I think, even though the political landscape is beginning to change, there is some major headaches in going all out straight for renewable-derived liquid fuels at present.

[UFO]

It's on wiki.

Algae fuel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[freebeard]

Crucially, the reaction runs at temperatures below 100°C and at ambient pressure, making it feasible to incorporate into a practical fuel cell system, says Beller.

To get back to the O.P.'s citation, it sounds like the intent is to reform the methanol at the point of use—at 65 on the freeway.

Algal biodiesel? Use one of the black governments nuclear powered subterrenes to tunnel from the Pacific to Death Valley, CA, below sea level; and use seawater in holding ponds. They move fast, it would take a few days.

You could extract energy from the temperature difference between the seawater and the valley floor to power the process.

[Air-Hybrid]

Originally Posted by freebeard

To get back to the O.P.'s citation, it sounds like the intent is to reform the methanol at the point of use—at 65 on the freeway.

Importantly it all happens on a small-scale at the membranes of the fuel-cell; so there is no free H2, just that which is only free to transfer ions across the cell junction with the outside air (as a straight H2 fuel cell would). The only difference is it cracks each of the three double-hydrogens off from the methanol (+ 1x H20) in three discrete events, but all at the junction of the cell.


....I hope I got that right! ~ I'm only reading about Hemp (to make bio-methanol), nothing else!

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Air-Hybrid

I'm only reading about Hemp (to make bio-methanol), nothing else!

I've been reading about hemp-based biodiesel. The hemp fibers could also be used for other petro-chemical industrial purposes, replacing synthetic fibers such as nylon and even fiberglass in some applications

[freebeard]

With Hemp or bamboo you can make food, clothing and shelter. Are there any other plants that offer so much?

I don't think you can make fuel out of bamboo.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by freebeard

I don't think you can make fuel out of bamboo.

Yes, it's possible. Any source of cellulose can be used to make fuel.

[gone-ot]

...something to remember: energy density (BTU per unit) is not the same as octane number (knock resistance). People keep mixing ethanol & methanol's higher octane numbers with diesels higher energy content...they ain't the same, nor are they compatible values.

[Air-Hybrid]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...something to remember: energy density (BTU per unit) is not the same as octane number (knock resistance).

Certainly... And a fuel-cell doesn't care what octane number the fuel has (or cetane #, or any other value related to combustion). It is true however that yes, the energy density of methanol (and to a lesser degree ethanol) is pretty damn low (at somewhat less than half of diesel) ~ the saving grace here though is the overall efficiency that could be returned for the full driving-cycle using fuel-cells of this type; offering efficiencies that IC engines (of any type or complexity) can only dream of.