Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-12-2013, 03:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
UFO
Master EcoModder
 
UFO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,300

Colorado - '17 Chevrolet Colorado 4x4 LT
90 day: 23.07 mpg (US)
Thanks: 315
Thanked 178 Times in 138 Posts
All of the current US transportation needs can be handled with algal biodiesel. Methanol is actually not nearly as energy dense as normal liquid fuel, however if a fuel cell can be made to be as efficient as you claim it could perhaps claim the same range as the same volume of biodiesel in an ICE. By the way, diesel engines currently are 40% thermally efficient, and combined with a hybrid technology can be even better. What's not to like about solar energy, be it biodiesel or methanol? There is room for both, and we don't have to sacrifice our water, our climate or our arable land.

__________________
I'm not coasting, I'm shifting slowly.
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 03-12-2013, 04:17 PM   #12 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: London, UK
Posts: 113
Thanks: 16
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by UFO View Post
What's not to like about solar energy, be it biodiesel or methanol? There is room for both, and we don't have to sacrifice our water, our climate or our arable land.
I agree. There is nothing to dislike about capturing sunlight to turn it efficiently into fuel; liquid fuel especially. But I struggle to understand where all this algal biodiesel is going to appear from overnight - ? .. I should reiterate that methanol predominately from NatGas should pragmatically only be viewed as a stopgap whilst other renewable streams are encouraged to fulfil the longer term demand.

...A couple of points:
Are diesels "40% thermally efficient" for the averaged load conditions found in real-world driving? ...I suspect not [though obviously hybridisation can go some way to countering this].

Can you provide support for claiming that "All of the current US transportation needs can be handled with algal biodiesel" ? - So there is enough recoverable 'waste water' within her boarders (plus enough unused land) to process the millions of gallons of algae needed then? If your assertion is actually heavily focused on developing foreign processing 'ponds' as sources, what happens then? And what of the rest of the world; as it's needs expand?


"There is room for both, and we don't have to sacrifice our water, our climate or our arable land." - That's how I feel too, but I think, even though the political landscape is beginning to change, there is some major headaches in going all out straight for renewable-derived liquid fuels at present.

Last edited by Air-Hybrid; 03-12-2013 at 04:23 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 04:46 PM   #13 (permalink)
UFO
Master EcoModder
 
UFO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,300

Colorado - '17 Chevrolet Colorado 4x4 LT
90 day: 23.07 mpg (US)
Thanks: 315
Thanked 178 Times in 138 Posts
It's on wiki.

Algae fuel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________
I'm not coasting, I'm shifting slowly.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 01:04 PM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 20,445
Thanks: 5,738
Thanked 6,667 Times in 5,384 Posts
Quote:
Crucially, the reaction runs at temperatures below 100°C and at ambient pressure, making it feasible to incorporate into a practical fuel cell system, says Beller.
To get back to the O.P.'s citation, it sounds like the intent is to reform the methanol at the point of use—at 65 on the freeway.

Algal biodiesel? Use one of the black governments nuclear powered subterrenes to tunnel from the Pacific to Death Valley, CA, below sea level; and use seawater in holding ponds. They move fast, it would take a few days.

You could extract energy from the temperature difference between the seawater and the valley floor to power the process.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 01:43 PM   #15 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: London, UK
Posts: 113
Thanks: 16
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
To get back to the O.P.'s citation, it sounds like the intent is to reform the methanol at the point of use—at 65 on the freeway.
Importantly it all happens on a small-scale at the membranes of the fuel-cell; so there is no free H2, just that which is only free to transfer ions across the cell junction with the outside air (as a straight H2 fuel cell would). The only difference is it cracks each of the three double-hydrogens off from the methanol (+ 1x H20) in three discrete events, but all at the junction of the cell.


....I hope I got that right! ~ I'm only reading about Hemp (to make bio-methanol), nothing else!
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 08:10 PM   #16 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 10,154
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,211 Times in 1,071 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air-Hybrid View Post
I'm only reading about Hemp (to make bio-methanol), nothing else!
I've been reading about hemp-based biodiesel. The hemp fibers could also be used for other petro-chemical industrial purposes, replacing synthetic fibers such as nylon and even fiberglass in some applications
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to cRiPpLe_rOoStEr For This Useful Post:
Air-Hybrid (03-15-2013)
Old 03-15-2013, 01:02 PM   #17 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 20,445
Thanks: 5,738
Thanked 6,667 Times in 5,384 Posts
With Hemp or bamboo you can make food, clothing and shelter. Are there any other plants that offer so much?

I don't think you can make fuel out of bamboo.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2013, 12:55 AM   #18 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 10,154
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,211 Times in 1,071 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
I don't think you can make fuel out of bamboo.
Yes, it's possible. Any source of cellulose can be used to make fuel.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2013, 03:55 PM   #19 (permalink)
...beats walking...
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: .
Posts: 6,190
Thanks: 179
Thanked 1,522 Times in 1,123 Posts
...something to remember: energy density (BTU per unit) is not the same as octane number (knock resistance). People keep mixing ethanol & methanol's higher octane numbers with diesels higher energy content...they ain't the same, nor are they compatible values.

Last edited by gone-ot; 03-17-2013 at 04:01 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2013, 07:13 PM   #20 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: London, UK
Posts: 113
Thanks: 16
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tele man View Post
...something to remember: energy density (BTU per unit) is not the same as octane number (knock resistance).
Certainly... And a fuel-cell doesn't care what octane number the fuel has (or cetane #, or any other value related to combustion). It is true however that yes, the energy density of methanol (and to a lesser degree ethanol) is pretty damn low (at somewhat less than half of diesel) ~ the saving grace here though is the overall efficiency that could be returned for the full driving-cycle using fuel-cells of this type; offering efficiencies that IC engines (of any type or complexity) can only dream of.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com