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Old 07-28-2018, 08:30 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Last time I checked over 1 million wells had been fractured.

A lot of the bio methane that can be captured is being captured in the US and burned. Ethanol relies heavily on natural gas to be made so that's kind of pointless.

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Old 07-28-2018, 09:40 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Keep in mind that Scotland's average electricity demand is only 4 GW so this is easy to make a high percentage from rebuildables when it is connected to a reliable baseload grid from the rest of the UK. Despite having some of the best offshore wind resources in the world, several major wind projects have been canceled over the last couple years due to the ending of government feed in tariff incentives. Offshore wind does not stand on it's own in the current pricing.
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Any country that can afford to import oil ( especially USA) would be wise to quit fracking and just leave their oil in the ground for now. Money in the bank. The price of oil will be 3X (if there is still a strong enough world economy to buy it at all) in 20 years and having any to export will be very strategic. Any oil and gas that remains will be nearly invaluable to society in Northern Latitudes in 70 years. Magic stuff.
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Old 07-28-2018, 09:47 AM   #23 (permalink)
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They could provide their countries electricity with four AP1000 nuclear reactors and have power left over.
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Old 07-29-2018, 07:58 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Ethanol relies heavily on natural gas to be made so that's kind of pointless.
Some aspects should be taken in consideration, such as the energy output and the possibility of integrating corn-based ethanol production with cattle raising. Feeding the distillation grain to the cattle enhances the weight gain, and the manure of the livestock being turned into biogas that can be used for co-generation (heat and electric power) to supply the energy requirements of the process. Here in Brazil it's usual to either burn leftovers from the sugarcane in that co-generation process instead of using boiler oils like it used to be previously common.
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Old 07-29-2018, 09:42 AM   #25 (permalink)
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ER/ EI for ethanol production can be suitably viable with sugar cane at 7:1. Ethanol from corn is only 2:1. From cellulose it's <1. Biodiesel from corn is 1.5:1
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Old 07-29-2018, 11:35 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Looks like corn ethanol and corn oil bio diesel relies heavily on cheap natural gas.
You don't have to use natural gas or cheap hydraulically fractured natural gas but it helps, a lot.
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Old 08-02-2018, 05:10 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Looks like corn ethanol and corn oil bio diesel relies heavily on cheap natural gas.
You don't have to use natural gas or cheap hydraulically fractured natural gas but it helps, a lot.
At least here in Brazil, corn-based ethanol has only been considered because of its cost-effectiveness as a byproduct of the production of a high-protein substract for livestock feeding, plus there are two seasons instead of only one for sugarcane and therefore it's possible to keep ethanol prices stable year-round.. Plus the natural gas may be quite easily replaced by some biogas processed from the livestock manure and some other organic residues from the slaughterhouses. Even though I would also support the usage of biomethane as a motor fuel, corn-based ethanol might still have its favorable aspects associated with a faster weight gain from livestock fed with distillation-grain instead of raw corn.
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:35 PM   #28 (permalink)
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A professor made a big deal of corn-based ethanol making tortillas too expensive in Mexico.
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:52 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
ER/ EI for ethanol production can be suitably viable with sugar cane at 7:1. Ethanol from corn is only 2:1. From cellulose it's <1. Biodiesel from corn is 1.5:1
I wonder if part of the advantage in Brazil is they don't make them take all the water out. I think getting to 190 proof is a lot easier than the 200 proof required here. Read something recently that a little water reduces the corrosiveness as well.

I'll ask a engineer I work with at a couple ethanol plants next time he drops by.
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Old 08-02-2018, 07:12 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roosterk0031 View Post
I wonder if part of the advantage in Brazil is they don't make them take all the water out.
The advantage is the amount of sunpower available to Brazil. Sugarcane flourishes in that environment, so it's cheap to make ethanol.

I'm all for Brazil sugarcane ethanol, and completely against corn ethanol.

Quote:
Ethanol and Biodiesel Yield per Acre from Selected Crops
Fuel Crop Fuel Yield (gallons)

Ethanol
Sugar beet (France) 714
Sugarcane (Brazil) 662
Cassava (Nigeria) 410
Sweet Sorghum (India) 374
Corn (U.S.) 354
Wheat (France) 277
Biodiesel
Oil palm 508
Coconut 230
Rapeseed 102
Peanut 90
Sunflower 82
Soybean 56 (author’s estimate)

For net energy yield, ethanol from sugarcane in Brazil is in a class all by itself, yielding over 8 units of energy for each unit invested in cane production and ethanol distillation...Brazil can produce cane-based ethanol for 60 per gallon.

...U.S. corn-based ethanol, which relies largely on natural gas for distillation energy, comes in a distant third in net energy efficiency, yielding only 1.5 units of energy for each energy unit used.

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Last edited by redpoint5; 08-02-2018 at 08:25 PM..
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