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Old 09-26-2010, 11:22 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I'm liking what I see... the questions that arises for me is, does any one have information on the cost of maintainance with respect to average speed? My "opinion" is that the savings from slowing down are greater due to lower maintainence cost than from fuel savings!
The next Question is what is the average cost of speeding tickets/driver? this needs to be added to the cost of speeding in some way.
With respect to the effort cost I for one would rate modding as enjoyement on the order of getting a longed for gift of some kind...an other way I look at it is if I sit around doing nothing ...in order to not wast my time... doing something then all I will get is fat! If I "wast my time" doing something I will be amused and gain satifaction in the achivements.

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Old 09-26-2010, 01:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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If you really want to break down the economics of hypermiling, you need to do a full NPV calculation on your savings. If I spend $100 on mods this month and save 10$ per month on fuel as long as I own the vehicle, then in 10 months I've paid myself back in a static analysis. But I have to consider how much I'd have if I just put the $100 in a cd or something. So I'd suggest running an NPV calculation using the interest rate on whatever you're using a savings vehicle as a discount rate.
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:35 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roflwaffle View Post
Now that we have figured out the minimum it costs to drive faster...
I think you missed the point I was trying to make, which is that it's not rational to do either speed or fuel economy mods for economic reasons. You do it as a form of recreation, for the fun and for the challenge.
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Lazarus -

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Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
CarlosSW2,
Were you at EPA values when you started getting into the fuel game? Most are not so your numbers are probably better than that I know you don't so it for the money just using you for an example.
Excellent question, but it doesn't work in my favor. I was at about 30+ MPG without trying. This would be in line with "old EPA" figures. The above savings is based on 27 MPG. If I adjust it to my previous 31 MPG, I get this :



That knocks my numbers down a lot. Over 34 months I am now saving $46 per month and $555 per year. That gives me a smaller "mod budget" to work with.

On the other hand, I'm adopting the overall decision of the site, which is to use the new EPA figures for comparison. Using the new EPA does make me look spiffier, but I think it's better if we all stick to one measuring stick in the Garage and debate the merits of such in threads.

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Old 09-26-2010, 03:19 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I think you missed the point I was trying to make, which is that it's not rational to do either speed or fuel economy mods for economic reasons. You do it as a form of recreation, for the fun and for the challenge.
Yeah, I have a friend who almost dropped $4K on a turbo for his car. While I can't ju$tify that cost in my mind, I can fully *understand* his desire to do it.

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Old 09-26-2010, 04:26 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The economics of hypermiling are likely to change somewhat as time goes by. Fuel prices will likely rise, both due to historical trends and due to the explosive economic growth in India and Asia, which will create more demand for oil. More demand= higher prices.

Being able to get better mpg, and altering a vehicle to get better mpg, will increase the value of said vehicle to the owner, which will be a detterant to buy a new vehicle. Buying a new vehicle to replace a good serviceable vehicle is economically disasterous and worse on the economy than recycling a running vehicle, and recycling the components that wear out. Nearly every major replacement part can be bought used or rebuilt for much less than new, and keeps those parts out of landfills.

Were there more people hanging onto their good serviceable vehicles because they could get better than EPA mpg from them, it would alter the perceived needs of new car buyers and the big 3 may realize anew the importance of fuel economy and longevity in a vehicle, instead of the disposable vehicles that seem popular with mfgers now.
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Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
I think you missed the point I was trying to make, which is that it's not rational to do either speed or fuel economy mods for economic reasons. You do it as a form of recreation, for the fun and for the challenge.

Last edited by ShadeTreeMech; 09-26-2010 at 07:14 PM..
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Old 09-26-2010, 06:02 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Two ways to look at it:
1. Cost savings
2. A profitable outlet for shade tree moders

#1 For some the cost numbers are the main point and for most mods this is a good yardstick to use. For some mods it is more for item #2 (say a swap to a manual trany if the current one is not broken). In this case the point of the mod is doing the mod instead of moding for more HP or performance.

Both ways are fine by me
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Old 09-26-2010, 06:14 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weather Spotter View Post
For some mods it is more for item #2 (say a swap to a manual trany if the current one is not broken). In this case the point of the mod is doing the mod instead of moding for more HP or performance.

Both ways are fine by me
How'd you know my future plans for my car??!??
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
I think you missed the point I was trying to make, which is that it's not rational to do either speed or fuel economy mods for economic reasons. You do it as a form of recreation, for the fun and for the challenge.
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Old 09-26-2010, 06:55 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The questions that need to be answered is what are the costs of wasteful cars and driving in terms of
cost/distance [at various speeds]
cost of accidents due to speed/average speed
cost of speeding tickets/driver
cost of maintenance/average speed
cost of insurance due to speeding tickets/diver...

Because without agreed on data we can't even get close to a reasonable understanding of the economics. That being said even when we do have a partial understanding based on the best info we will still have more to learn. What I am hoping for is as complete a costing of wastefulness in cars and driving as possible. then we will have a better understanding of the economic benefits of slowing down, ecomodding, and hypermiling.
the problem we have is that argument in that absence of evidence is of no value.
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Old 09-26-2010, 07:16 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadeTreeMech View Post
How'd you know my future plans for my car??!??
Call it intuition

I would still go for the swap, just show me the numbers on the $$$ savings. Will it pay for it's self before it wears out? If not than doing it is to satisfy the moding itch not for $$ savings.

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