Fuel Efficiency Standards Finalized.... (54.5 mpg U.S. CAFE regs for 2025)

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

55mpg is unachievable and undesirable in that time frame. 12 years ago we had the gen1 Insight.

And mine's still getting over 70 mpg. Now VW is supposed to be readying a car that'll get 235 mpg, Volts count as around 90, Tesla & Nissan make pure electrics... Kinda hard to claim something is unachievable, when it has already been done.

[christofoo]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

...
There is no way that artificial (gov't) requirements on mpg or carbon emissions will "help" the environment in the long run. These regulations only serve to stifle our economy (U.S.) while giving a boost to those that do not participate in MGW hysteria.

If an alternate technology is to be developed and adopted, it has to do so based on it's own merits, not on unnatural manipulation of the market.

Like environmental policy has never worked before? (Ozone depletion, smog, overfishing...)

This economy stifling bit is overblown, unless you're talking cap-and-trade, which I'm not. Technological costs are incremental, as long as softened by phase-in so that capital equipment doesn't get trashed. Revenue neutral means that higher industrial costs are equally offset by lower cost-of-living.

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

55mpg is unachievable

Please see previous post about CAFE adjustment factor. It's not 55 mpg, it will be more like low-mid 40's on the window sticker.

EDIT: tracking down the "real" (window sticker) equivalent of 54.5 CAFE mpg, this credible source says it will in fact be closer to 36 mpg.

EDIT 2:

Because CAFE compliance tests are out of date and overinflate fuel
economy, the average on-road fuel economy of cars and light trucks is expected to be 36-40 mpg by 2025, up from 21 mpg today. See http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documen...to-On-Road.pdf for more information.

source: http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documen...-2017-2025.pdf

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by christofoo

This economy stifling bit is overblown...

Suppose, for argument's sake, that it's not; that environmental regulations WILL stifle the economy. So what, exactly, can you buy that's worth more than clean air & water, and a dependable food supply?

[UltArc]

Say bye bye to a few brands. From Aston to Zonda, we will be losing some high end performance cars if they don't merge back with big companies, like Bugatti/Lambo/Auto Union (VW, scoda, suzuki, porsche, audi so on). I say back regarding Volvo, Jaguar and Aston being sold off by Ford to different companies, like Tata.

At least in Europe, the Veyron can get 9 mpg because a 60mpg Polo can balance it out. What does Pagani have to balance out the Zonda R F Race edition? The Zonda S? Lol

I hope in the US, companies are grouped together by corporations. It makes me think of a hyundai commercial saying they average the highest fuel economy. Mostly because they don't make an F 150. Or 250. Or 350. Or 450. Well, I believe it still goes to 950 for crazy heavy duty. Then again, for a while Ford was boasting the Best small size pick up truck. Fastest, cheapest, most powerful, most fuel efficient. Because the Ranger is the only one.

It's all trickery and tom foolery. I welcome these changes, though. It is clear our fuel will become a crisis eventually. something needs to be done, and I am definitely not smart enough to make an alternative.

Please note that I said Zonda to make the cars go A to Z, I know the Zonda is a model of Pagani. Also, mpgs written are used only for demonstration, not meant to be accurate. The first Zonda named might not exist, I heard the R was the last to be made, then they said here comes three more after, so that is more of a joke. Also, if anyone has any updates or clarification on the European guideline reference, I welcome the corrections!

[niky]

Pretty easy. Do what Aston did. Sell a small, overpriced Toyota Aygo. Boom. CAFE goes up a million points... though I'm given to understand you'd need more than one small model to balance out even one gas guzzler.

Which is the whole point.

Then again, the question is, as always, if you build them, will they really come?

Given the SMART ForTwo experience in America... maybe not.

[suspectnumber961]

If it wasn't for California the US would be an even more retrograde mess than it is.

The US overall is getting to be one of the bigger drags on human progress?

With any luck...we might even get GMOs labeled....

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Also, why is CARB still around? Why should an entire industry be held hostage by 1/50th of the states? It's a silly waste that an industry might make a 49 state version of a vehicle, and then a CA version. Sometimes a vehicle is withheld from production in the States because it won't pass CARB regs.

/rant

[UltArc]

Originally Posted by niky

Pretty easy. Do what Aston did. Sell a small, overpriced Toyota Aygo. Boom. CAFE goes up a million points... though I'm given to understand you'd need more than one small model to balance out even one gas guzzler.

Which is the whole point.

Then again, the question is, as always, if you build them, will they really come?

Given the SMART ForTwo experience in America... maybe not.

I know rhey are trying, but the IQ or whatever it is with some new badges and a couple of throw pillows that costs three or four times the amount is just rediculous. One buys an Aston for looks, power, elegance, the design and, of course, the name. But who would pay for just the name portion? Yes, the IQ (if it's even the same) is brilliant, but that isn't he usual Aston design idea.

If they really wanted to move forward, they would be making hybrid drivetrains (H/A NSX), motorcycles, or all there cars can come with eco designs, but the user turns them off. Say computer limited to 1500 rpms, fullngrill block and major aero factors that pop right off. Basically your Aston comes in a tear drop packaging one pulls off when they get it.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by niky

Pretty easy. Do what Aston did. Sell a small, overpriced Toyota Aygo. Boom. CAFE goes up a million points... though I'm given to understand you'd need more than one small model to balance out even one gas guzzler.

Or you can do what Lotus is doing: Evora 414E Hybrid | Lotus Cars They sell about the highest performance cars around, yet have been near the top of the CAFE rankings for years.

Or there's the electric prototype that Rolls-Royce built: The Electric Rolls-Royce Isn't Great, But It's Good Enough For Now - Forbes

[gone-ot]

...unfortunately, the gobberment's method of getting "higher MPG" is to simply 'stand' on top of the ever-increasing pile of "dead" auto manufacturers.