Gadgetman Groove Experience

[Sean.Heihn]

Originally Posted by ChazInMT

Funny, back in November I got into a thread discussion where a guy who was claiming that Variable Valve Timing was a way to eliminate pumping loss, I thought he was full of it, but this led me to research the whole VVT thing and really cemented for me how it is that intake systems control the power of engines. The thread is Warm Air Intake (WAI) vs Cold Air Intake (CAI) ... School Me and worth having a look at.

Modern engines are 98%+ efficient at burning all the fuel that goes into the cylinder, so looking to improve fuel efficiency by claiming to promote “Better Combustion” is ridiculous. Pumping losses are a result of the cylinders in our engines needing to pull a small amount air into the cylinder in relation to what the cylinder is capable of pulling in. These result in about 3% of the energy produced by the engine being wasted on this process. No modification of the throttle body can eliminate this loss.

Well removing the throttle plate would, , but then you'd be at constant WOT. Actually I've heard Formula 1 cars didn't have throttles for a while until they mandated them, they controlled engine speed and output purely through valve and ignition timing, though Formula 1 cars tend to be driven at WOT most of the time, unlike regular cars. Isn't the pumping loss a necessary evil of the Otto cycle? The throttle controls engine speed and power output by inducing a vacuum, thereby reducing fuel/air mixture? Doesn't variable valve timing do the same in effect? Or does VVT produce a mild simulated Atkinson cycle? Actually reading about how the Yaris and Prius engines are basically identical except for the pistons and camshafts made me wonder about an engine that used VVT to switch between Otto cycle for high load and simulated Atkinson cycle for low load. Only problem would be compression, if you used a high compression ratio, like the Prius, to make up for the volume lost during the compression stroke, the Prius has a possible compression ratio of 13 to 1 but because of the Atkinson cycle, its effective ratio is something like 10.5 to 1. This would necessitate the use of high octane fuel to prevent knock when in Otto cycle. Or the compression could be left at a normal ratio, but then the ratio during Atkinson cycle would be quite low, reducing efficiency but allowing the use of low octane fuel. Sorry, I've been mulling this over in my head for a while.

[mwebb]

not wrong but possibly incomplete

because
maybe
turbulence will be introduced beyond the throttle body
this turbulence May / Might / could possibly result in UN even and IN consistent flow of air to individual cylinders
because the intake manifold consists of a central chamber with mostly equal length and volume runners radiating from it to each individual cylinder

unknown turbulence introduced near the inlet of the central chamber
should / will / might change air flow per cylinder

which would result in individual cylinders being fed the same amount of fuel and varying amounts of air

which will reduce overall efficiency because
the 02 sensors correct fuel trim per bank of 3 cylinders not for individual cylinders

this assumes that the gouge carved into the throttle body has any effect at all - which at this point
remains to be seen and would be subject to change based on the size / shape / installation / location of the gouge

and to the OP
it would appear if what you state is correct that you are not actually a shyster
just an UNsuspecting victim a naive mortal
as you could have purchased a dremel tool with some 1/8" die grinder bits
and created your own gouge , for the purposes of solving your own curiosity for considerably less than what you have
been hoodwinked out of
after watching the many free videos on the net showing how to install the gouge

if what is above is true , a thousand apologies for questioning your integrity

there is however another possibility ...

[Shawn D.]

Originally Posted by ChazInMT

Funny, back in November I got into a thread discussion where a guy who was claiming that Variable Valve Timing was a way to eliminate pumping loss, I thought he was full of it, but this led me to research the whole VVT thing and really cemented for me how it is that intake systems control the power of engines.

That's partially correct, but BMW's implementation of VVT to include both timing and variable lift means the pumping losses around the throttle plate can be essentially eliminated: Valvetronic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Sean.Heihn

Well removing the throttle plate would, , but then you'd be at constant WOT.

That's how Gasoline Direct Injection (GDI) engines operate when in "diesel" mode -- the throttle plate is fully open.

[Frank Lee]

So... how are the gouges coming?

[redpoint5]

Frank, you just had to dig this one back up...

Just everyone is enjoying improved MPG with the summer weather. I'm up 2MPG just from faster warmups and less dense air, and that's with the AC running. If I had just started paying attention to fuel economy in the winter, I would report back that the gouges significantly improved mileage.

[racprops]

In my research I met and worked with Ron for a couple of weeks.

I can state that in my opinion it is total BS.

I had him do one on my 4.3 Ford, and saw that it did give a feeling of a greater take off, BUT it did so by opening the throttle faster and it also cause a larger use of gas, my FI duty cycle meters give it away, with the grove they read higher for the same Throttle Position Readout than stock.

I when to a junk yard and bought a few throttle bodies and tried a few combos…I also took these to a dyno and we ran 4 of my mods and his personal mod on my car and NONE gave me ANY Improvement.

I also help Ron install his grove on my 93 Van, my 91 Toyota, and the owner of the Dyno on his late model Dodge Truck which was the only car we saw any HP improvement and we believed it was because it was a Hemi.(we got 5 HP) He then took a trip over 500 miles and saw no MPG improvement nor did I on all three of my cars.

We even got a guy with a '65 327 Chevy to do it on his Quad,(Ron kept saying the computers were missing things up…) and dynoed it and LOST HP.

I have debunked this when every I find it.

My 2 cents.

Rich

[Frank Lee]

I do appreciate that it appears you gave it a good shot and provided honest results.

Some of these sorts of things can be debunked without actually going through all the work of physically doing it, but the data points gained are good to have anyway.

[racprops]

Well other that the costs of the junk yard TB All the rest were free, only my time was wasted.

Rich

[Arragonis]

Cough

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ove-25538.html

[freebeard]

So this is not the guy that was cutting grooves in the tops of the pistons?

If I was going to get behind a mad scientist, I'd want one of the caliber of Viktor Schauberger. I'm convinced he had a handle on things.

How you apply this to an induction system I have no idea, but I suspect it would involve evolutionary design algorithms and sintered-metal 3D printed parts.