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Old 05-06-2013, 10:55 PM   #21 (permalink)
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"Your mind is like a parachute, it only works when it's open."
your quote above is false -
and can even be dangerous for those who are blissfully un able to comprehend
certain
facts

you have already made misleading statements in his thread which i will not address in this reply

"do not be negative because you are a Christian ?" maybe you are - maybe not.
it is irrelevant .

most / all of the purveyors of snake oil that post in this forum somehow find a way to not put up any real verifiable test results ? what a coincidence ....

Fords do not like to have new sources of turbulence introduced in the intake , this is not a secret -
you can not test for it or it's effects as you do not have the knowledge or equipment

i think that
this is not going to end well


Last edited by mwebb; 05-06-2013 at 11:01 PM..
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Old 05-07-2013, 03:39 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMichler View Post
AB testing has terrible potential for errors. See my sig line for summer and winter average mileage in my truck, and this thread for where those numbers came from: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...yon-17070.html

I regularly make a 60 mile trip. My MPG for that particular trip ranges from 30 to over 42, depending on wind and temperature. I can get even lower mileage in a good snowstorm.

Look at my fuel log. You can easily see the seasonal variation and the tank to tank variation. For example, yesterday's fill was lower than normal for the range of temperatures because most of the miles (almost 90%) were against a headwind, while the previous fill had slightly warmer temperatures and no wind.

Yesterday's fill: Average temperature about 40 degrees and 31.6 MPG.
Previous fill: Average temperature about 65 degrees and 35.2 MPG.

A Scangauge or Ultragauge is useful for short tests on a straight stretch of road where you can test a change ABABAB several times before the temperature and wind change. Tank averages tell what happens in the real world, but it is difficult to control the variables well enough to truly measure the results of a change. I discuss this somewhat in my mod thread linked above.

Don't give up and please keep us updated.
JR, Thank You for your vote of confidence and adding some connotation to the statements that are being presented. As I said and will continue to say, I'm not a mechanic and certainly am no expert but I do want to learn and do things the proper way. I see what you are saying here and I think that I can really see the value of an ABABABA test or set of tests with different variable introduced. That said, if you average the last 30 tank fills with the next 30 tank fills and the second average is 15 MPG's better than the first average....that's not deniable. It may not be 100% accurate but when averaged together the variables certainly would not be that far off...


Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000mc View Post
2005 Throttle Body Ford Taurus 3.0L,OHV,SE $25 L and L Auto Parts, Inc. USA-NC(Grover) 1-704-487-7401 / 1-800-289-5474

Found with car-part
Thank You for pointing this out. I decided that I'm not going to do any modding to the throttle body until I get another one and can do a more regulated set of tests. I want to do this in a way that will give us all direct answers and will help us to determine if this Gadgetman thing is a fluke or if it's for real. I will not be able to spend money on testing equipment until next month at the soonest, may even be in July before I can do so. I should be able to get the throttle body next month however.

Thank You all for your help and kind words...I will not give up!
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Old 05-07-2013, 03:44 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwebb View Post
"Your mind is like a parachute, it only works when it's open."
your quote above is false -
and can even be dangerous for those who are blissfully un able to comprehend
certain
facts

you have already made misleading statements in his thread which i will not address in this reply

"do not be negative because you are a Christian ?" maybe you are - maybe not.
it is irrelevant .

most / all of the purveyors of snake oil that post in this forum somehow find a way to not put up any real verifiable test results ? what a coincidence ....

Fords do not like to have new sources of turbulence introduced in the intake , this is not a secret -
you can not test for it or it's effects as you do not have the knowledge or equipment

i think that
this is not going to end well
You can call me anytime and I'd be glad to get to know you a bit. My number is in the first post, I'd love to connect. If you would like to address any of the above comments, please PM me, call me, or email me as I welcome your feedback. Thank you for not addressing it in the thread.

All the best,

Wayne, SC
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Old 05-07-2013, 04:07 PM   #24 (permalink)
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On one side I cannot get Gatgetman's claims in line with my knowledge of physics, but I love to learn even if that means that my take on science needs an overhaul. The better the proof, the bigger the herd of followers you'd get.

Like the statement about the mind being like a parachute. Now let's hope it contains more than just a lot of air.
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Old 05-07-2013, 04:15 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
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On one side I cannot get Gatgetman's claims in line with my knowledge of physics, but I love to learn even if that means that my take on science needs an overhaul. The better the proof, the bigger the herd of followers you'd get.

Like the statement about the mind being like a parachute. Now let's hope it contains more than just a lot of air.
Thanks for the comment, I appreciate it. I can tell you, I definitely have hot air in there, but I usually save that for sporting events and camp fires!

I don't know how all I'm gong to be able to test this (without a lab) with limited funds but I'm going to do my best to show you all the same data that I'm looking at and I'm leaning towards ABA tests as well.

Wayne, SC
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Old 05-07-2013, 04:34 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divedaddy03 View Post
That said, if you average the last 30 tank fills with the next 30 tank fills and the second average is 15 MPG's better than the first average....that's not deniable.
While you are right that it would not be deniable that the FE has gone up, it would, however, be impossible to convince the local peanut gallery (that includes me, btw) that the FE improvement was only attributable to one specific change. Especially when you spread out the measurements over a long period of time... tire pressure, tire wear, weather (winter vs summer temps), fuel quality, engine condition, travel routes, etc, etc can all have a significant impact on your FE over time. You can look at my fuel log (and I'm sure many of the ecomodder member's logs) and you can easily pick a range where 15 fills (each fill is after about 900 miles for me) is lower (or higher) than the next 15 fills, despite no specific mods being done.

I think I'm just restating what most have said. Would love to see the results for this, but if you are planning to do it by doing 30 fills before the mod and then 30 fills after the mod and assuming that's good, then I'd say don't even bother. Just do the mod, report back the results, and everyone will take it with a grain of salt or totally ignore it (like me). If you want to provide some believable results, then it will cost you some time & effort & $$.

I will freely admit that I had grand plans to test several mods on my cars with ABA methods, but never was able to find the time to go through that kind of effort... My hat's off to those folks that have done a reasonably thorough job of testing different mods... I do use the results when deciding what to do next on my cars. I've done several mods, some cheap, some expensive, and I do believe the mods have helped to improve my FE, but I wouldn't tell you that x mod improved my FE by y percent... I just dunno
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Old 05-07-2013, 04:40 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NachtRitter View Post
While you are right that it would not be deniable that the FE has gone up, it would, however, be impossible to convince the local peanut gallery (that includes me, btw) that the FE improvement was only attributable to one specific change. Especially when you spread out the measurements over a long period of time... tire pressure, tire wear, weather (winter vs summer temps), fuel quality, engine condition, travel routes, etc, etc can all have a significant impact on your FE over time. You can look at my fuel log (and I'm sure many of the ecomodder member's logs) and you can easily pick a range where 15 fills (each fill is after about 900 miles for me) is lower (or higher) than the next 15 fills, despite no specific mods being done.

I think I'm just restating what most have said. Would love to see the results for this, but if you are planning to do it by doing 30 fills before the mod and then 30 fills after the mod and assuming that's good, then I'd say don't even bother. Just do the mod, report back the results, and everyone will take it with a grain of salt or totally ignore it (like me). If you want to provide some believable results, then it will cost you some time & effort & $$.

I will freely admit that I had grand plans to test several mods on my cars with ABA methods, but never was able to find the time to go through that kind of effort... My hat's off to those folks that have done a reasonably thorough job of testing different mods... I do use the results when deciding what to do next on my cars. I've done several mods, some cheap, some expensive, and I do believe the mods have helped to improve my FE, but I wouldn't tell you that x mod improved my FE by y percent... I just dunno
And people like YOU is why I love this community!

I see what you are saying and completely understand and agree with everything that you said above (notice the shift in my interest to do ABA testing?) In the same post you referred to above, I also said that I'd like to do this (time and money permitting). I'm looking forward to this journey...

Wayne, SC
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Old 05-07-2013, 04:48 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Exclamation Recieved My Personal License Package

Yesterday I received my Personal License Package in the mail I took some pics for you. I wasn't able to get video because the kids were running around the house like crazy but here are the pics.







I also sat down and watched the training video that was included. My first impression of the video was that it is somewhat amateur and not very well "produced" but the content is fairly solid.

Basically, Ron brings you along for a training that he does with another person that is getting their Personal License. The are doing the groove on an 04' Impala and the training runs from start (opening of the hood) to finish (replacing the TB).

He covered all the basic techniques that you should need to be able to modify your own personal vehicles and he did so in detail. Where I felt the training DVD was lacking was the actual camera angles and quality the video was shot in. Sometimes it was hard to see just what he was talking about.

I would also suggest that he could cut a throttle body in half lengthwise to also use for demonstration purposes and if this works like he says it does I will suggest that.

Overall though, I do feel armed with enough knowledge to be able to groove a TB without damaging it or causing any big issues and I look forward to giving it a whirl.

Let me know if you have questions that I didn't cover in the above.

Wayne, SC
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:24 PM   #29 (permalink)
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clarify

just to clarify
the evidence as it stands based on your own statements

you have just spent $350 to become a licensed retailer / re seller
of something
that you your self have no idea if that thing is legitimate
or
a hoax perpetrated on yourself

with the intent to resell it ? to retail it ?
to whom ?
and that your expenditure used up all of your business capital so that you are unable to purchase test equipment so that you may ascertain the legitimacy or lack thereof of your purchase and business plan ?

then you attempt to conceal your plan's integrity
and
legitimacy
behind the shield of family videos ? and religion ?

clarify
because it would seem that your business plan is the definition of the word
flawed .

there is more ,
but it will wait for your reply
which i eagerly await
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:27 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwebb View Post
just to clarify
the evidence as it stands based on your own statements

you have just spent $350 to become a licensed retailer / re seller
of something
that you your self have no idea if that thing is legitimate
or
a hoax perpetrated on yourself

with the intent to resell it ? to retail it ?
to whom ?
and that your expenditure used up all of your business capital so that you are unable to purchase test equipment so that you may ascertain the legitimacy or lack thereof of your purchase and business plan ?

then you attempt to conceal your plan's integrity
and
legitimacy
behind the shield of family videos ? and religion ?

clarify
because it would seem that your business plan is the definition of the word
flawed .

there is more ,
but it will wait for your reply
which i eagerly await

I appreciate your questions and pointing out the above.

I have never said that I was doing this as a business. Frankly, I can't do it as a business because (as I've stated more than one time in this thread) I purchased the "Personal License" program. The Personal License program is only to be used on your own vehicles (Ron said I could work on my families and next door neighbor too) and according to the guidelines I'm not allowed to charge anybody money to modify their vehicle (see link below).

Gadgetman Groove

As I've also stated, I'm just a normal guy that has no specific training and I'm not a certified mechanic by trade. I'm doing this from a perspective of curiosity and quite possibly have been sold on snake oil but I will have to find out (another reason I'm here talking to you all for advice).

Also, please help me to understand how I may be shielding a "plan's integrity and legitimacy" by using a "shield of family videos? and religion?"?

I'm confused, I'm here on this forum talking to each member here openly for the purpose of sharing my experience (see thread title) with Gadgetman Groove Personal License program. I'm not benefiting in this in any way other than from the advice and knowledge of all of you (I greatly appreciate this) and using the forum as an avenue to document this journey.

I'm sorry if I've misled anyone, it has not been my intentions.
I will try to be more clear in the future.
Please call, Email, or PM me, I look forward to getting to know you.

All the best,

Wayne, SC

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