Gen2 Prius, Gen3 Prius, Prius C or ???

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by radiantthought

They've also come out with the ridiculous cr-z which has dreams of being a fuel conscious sportscar? They could have made a super lightweight fuel sipping hybrid coupe (like the original insight) and had a whole market segment to themselves.

I've seen approximately the same number of CR-Zs as first gen Insights, and honestly they pretty much are the successor. The EPA ratings suck but someone who isn't a lunatic driving the M/T can get 50mpg. They even made a 6 speed manual just for it.

I think the best bang for your buck is a 2nd gen Prius, I doubt a 3rd gen would save you several thousand dollars in fuel over any reasonable period of time. The 2ZR is only <5% more efficient than the 1NZ, and this is on an already fuel efficient car.

[RedDevil]

2nd gen Insight...!
They get phased out so you can get sharp deals on new ones, and if you have just 15 grand to spend you can get a youngtimer wilth not too many miles (not that mileage matters much on a gen 2 - some are beyond 200.000 miles with no major issues).

The real world efficiency is about the same as the big Priuses, never mind what the EPA says. the Insight is underrated big time.

[Cobb]

When you look at the break even point, that is where the hybrid causes a blip on the radar. There are plenty of cars out there that beat the epa and the benchmark set by the prius with eco mods and adjusting the nut being the steering wheel. I use to get 70+mpg out of a 2012 focus sedan.

[radiantthought]

Lots of good input. I guess I'll give the second gen insights a closer look because I'd never heard anything but people talking trash about them. I know it's all just speculation at this point, but thanks for all the input everyone has given.

[California98Civic]

Okay, if you're interested in hybrids mostly, but don't forget the awesome advice you got in post #9 ... if it were me, that would be my path...

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by California98Civic

Okay, if you're interested in hybrids mostly, but don't forget the awesome advice you got in post #9 ... if it were me, that would be my path...

I'm not disagreeing with you, but the right vehicle for a person always depends on how it will actually be driven.

A person that does mostly city driving (lots of stops, shorter trips) will benefit from the hybrids ability to recapture a small portion of that stopping energy. Also, someone less willing to use extreme hypermiling techniques will benefit from a hybrid. Finally, the Prius has systems in place to preserve or accelerate warm-up time. The Gen II uses a vacuum bottle to store warm engine coolant, which preserves the engine heat after it is turned off. The Gen III uses heat from exhaust gasses to warm engine coolant quickly.

People with more discipline/skill can get better efficiency with non-hybrids.

Radiant's requirements are that the car be compact, automatic transmission (which reduces city driving efficiency), and fuel efficient. The OP needs to honestly consider how disciplined their driving will be in day to day use to determine which vehicle will best meet efficiency goals.

[Cobb]

Post 9? Oh gawd, I got to count stuff after work too? Hey, thats that guy who suggested a 2012 Civic HF?!?!?! Doesnt he know hybrids like the prius synergy drive work best in stop n go situations like city driving? The honda ima systems work best for highway driving mpg and many used 2010 insights are going for under 10 grand.

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by Cobb

Post 9? Oh gawd, I got to count stuff after work too? Hey, thats that guy who suggested a 2012 Civic HF?!?!?! Doesnt he know hybrids like the prius synergy drive work best in stop n go situations like city driving? The honda ima systems work best for highway driving mpg and many used 2010 insights are going for under 10 grand.

Yes, I know how hybrids work, Cobb. And you are right that he can find a 2012 Insight with 35,00-40,000 miles and in good condition from a dealer for under $15K too, as I found with the Civic HF in post #9. But the HF has comparable gearing on the freeway and I am sure he could put it over 50mpg with smart hypermiling and some low profile mods. And he would never have to be concerned with replacing or restoring the battery pack. So depending on the mix of driving he might have, the HF might be the better overall value. I'm just not sold yet on hybrids.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Finally, the Prius has systems in place to preserve or accelerate warm-up time. The Gen II uses a vacuum bottle to store warm engine coolant, which preserves the engine heat after it is turned off. The Gen III uses heat from exhaust gasses to warm engine coolant quickly.
.

I wonder if this is a common feature on newer cars. My parents' new car stays warm for hours after shutting down.

[radiantthought]

Yes, essentially the engineer in me sees the energy recapture of a hybrid, the generally smaller gasoline engines, all electric low-speed options, and infinitely variable transmissions with tall final drive ratios, and swoons. I live in a sprawling city (Orlando) where stop-and-go city driving is pretty much all that can be done most of the time. I do what I can to coast to stops, but it's a really hard city to try and drive super efficiently in. It's constant stop/start traffic (lots of lights/congestion), plus the tourists (and locals too) who are simply lost like to weave all over the place like maniacs.

For those curious, I generally get around 4.9-5.1 mi/kw (~165mpge) as a monthly average in my leaf. As for my current driving habits, I keep the car in eco mode 100% of the time, since it gives much finer control over acceleration and coasting. I try to stay around the speed of traffic (although I accelerate a bit slower) and if possible stay a few mph below the posted limits without becoming a rolling roadblock. I don't treat every trip out of the house as a moonshot for efficiency, but just generally try to keep myself consistently mindful of things.