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Old 02-02-2010, 06:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Geo Metro 1.0L G10 engine rebuild mods for better MPG

I got a quote from Totalseal on gapless compression rings similar to the top rings that come stock on Metro XFi's. All piston ring replacement sets out there (even those labaled as "for XFi models") do not have the gapless style top ring that prevents blowby and increases compression.

Quote:
Hello,
We have Gapless rings for the 3 Cyl Metro
74mm bore

1.2mm top
1.5mm 2nd
2.8mm oil

Gapless Top Ring 3 Cyl set = $169

Gapless 2nd Ring 3 Cyl Set = $135

Complete set of Top, Second and Oil Rings.

If you are ordering 6 or 9 cylinders at a time the price gets a bit
better....
These are suitable for anyone with a 74mm bore, but AFAIK that will generally apply only to those with the 3cyl G10 geo metro engine. I haven't decided if it's more worth it to me to bite the blowby with the gapped ring set that cost about half what these gapless rings are quoted as, but having gapless rings, especially in an XFi where there is only one compression ring seems pretty darned important, and unequivocally beneficial to the efficiency of any 1.0l suzukiclone motor.

Hopefully there will be enough people interested in this to get a nicer price for everyone. I've never done a group buy before, and I don't know if companies are willing to take one lump payment, then ship to individuals or what, but we can figure that all out in the mean time. I'm willing to coordinate this at no profit to myself - I just want to get gapless rings for my XFi rebuild, and help anyone who wants to do something similar. I hope to gather the orders of all interested parties by the end of the month. Please spread the word to whomever may be interested.

-Will

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Old 02-02-2010, 06:32 PM   #2 (permalink)
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this is something i will be doing with my neon as well, also from total seal, as recommended by a professional road racer and inside source from chrysler.

Benifits for my 3 ring set up is almost 100 percent seal from the top ring, allowing lower ring tension on the secondary ring, allowing more power (and efficiency), and less friction.
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Old 02-02-2010, 06:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Ooooo maybe we could rope an ecomodder out in that neck of the woods to go pick up the order so the rings only need to get shipped once (= fuel savings!) Eh? Any left coast takers? Carlos?
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Old 02-02-2010, 07:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
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If I'd have gotten those Metros I was looking at (as opposed to getting jerked around by the guy), I'd have so been in on this for 2 sets. I was going to build both engines to XFi specs and sell one (or keep it as a spare if I couldn't get a decent price for it).

Alas, I am Metro-less.
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Old 02-02-2010, 11:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I checked a couple of GM parts sites and found the rings. It might be a good idea to verify they are are the correct rings before ordering them. I assume "w/o LSI" would be the XFi. And I assume the price is per cylinder. I could use 7 of the "gapless" top rings....

http://www.gm-parts-dealer.com/
http://www.gmpartscheap.com/
There might be other sites too, I only checked a few.

Pistons, rings & bearings, Piston rings
Metro, w/o LSI - 1.0l
List Price : $33.00
Your Price : $26.40

Pistons, rings & bearings, Piston rings
Metro, w/LSI - 1.0l
List Price : $42.82
Your Price : $34.26

XFi decals are available too!
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Old 02-02-2010, 11:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Good find Gasoline Fumes...Do you want to contact them to find out whether those are the rings we're looking for? I could do it too, I just don't want to be the second or third person to contact them within a week about the same exact thing.
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
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GM part number for the XFi rings is 96061652. Now for the bad news, both a local GM dealer and GmPartsDirect.com have informed me that the rings have been discontinued. The dealer checked and no dealers in the US have any.
I don't know what you'll get if you order the rings from one of the site that still lists them.
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Guys, did Suzuki use these rings in any of their engines?

What are the odds of being able to take a bigger (1mm or so) ring and filing it at a steep angle to approximate the gapless design?

If the XFi's rings are 74mm, rings from D-series engines (Honda) should work... they're 75mm pistons.

I'm not sure if it would work or not, but NPR sells Honda D series rings cheap enough that it might be worth it to try.

Will, I've got some old D-series rings still on pistons, maybe. I could send a couple to each of you if I can find them, and that way you could both work on trying to make a gapless ring from a slightly larger one?

Thinking about it, I may not have those rings. I'll have to take a look the next time I'm at my Father's house before I offer them.
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Old 02-08-2010, 11:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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So maybe we're thinking the quoted price from totalseal was a bit steep? I wouldn't mind taking a crack at making my own gapless rings with a vise and some fancy filing work if I had some junk rings to try it out on. Anyone got old 75-77mm rings to mail to me? What is the likelihood of this working if the filing job were to be flawless? Would a 75-77mm ring still make a perfectly circular compression seal in a 74mm bore if it were made gapless down to 74mm?
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Old 02-08-2010, 11:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderboy View Post
So maybe we're thinking the quoted price from totalseal was a bit steep? I wouldn't mind taking a crack at making my own gapless rings with a vise and some fancy filing work if I had some junk rings to try it out on. Anyone got old 75-77mm rings to mail to me? What is the likelihood of this working if the filing job were to be flawless? Would a 75-77mm ring still make a perfectly circular compression seal in a 74mm bore if it were made gapless down to 74mm?
I get this weekend all to myself (wife and kid free, not actually to myself), so I'm going to look around at my Father's house and see if I've got any 75mm std bore rings from some old Honda pistons.

If you have a blown Honda engine laying around, it might be worth it to check it out, too. I know your one friend was having trouble, dunno what happened with that.

I would think that 1 or 2mm should be within tolerance for rings seating properly, but don't take my word for it.

Side note - Are you going to be at PAP this weekend, and should I bring anything with me?

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