Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-02-2010, 06:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Wonderboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 674

The Fruit Bat - '01 Honda Insight
Last 3: 54.26 mpg (US)

Current - '21 Subaru Impreza Wagon
90 day: 34.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 40
Thanked 39 Times in 27 Posts
Geo Metro 1.0L G10 engine rebuild mods for better MPG

I got a quote from Totalseal on gapless compression rings similar to the top rings that come stock on Metro XFi's. All piston ring replacement sets out there (even those labaled as "for XFi models") do not have the gapless style top ring that prevents blowby and increases compression.

Quote:
Hello,
We have Gapless rings for the 3 Cyl Metro
74mm bore

1.2mm top
1.5mm 2nd
2.8mm oil

Gapless Top Ring 3 Cyl set = $169

Gapless 2nd Ring 3 Cyl Set = $135

Complete set of Top, Second and Oil Rings.

If you are ordering 6 or 9 cylinders at a time the price gets a bit
better....
These are suitable for anyone with a 74mm bore, but AFAIK that will generally apply only to those with the 3cyl G10 geo metro engine. I haven't decided if it's more worth it to me to bite the blowby with the gapped ring set that cost about half what these gapless rings are quoted as, but having gapless rings, especially in an XFi where there is only one compression ring seems pretty darned important, and unequivocally beneficial to the efficiency of any 1.0l suzukiclone motor.

Hopefully there will be enough people interested in this to get a nicer price for everyone. I've never done a group buy before, and I don't know if companies are willing to take one lump payment, then ship to individuals or what, but we can figure that all out in the mean time. I'm willing to coordinate this at no profit to myself - I just want to get gapless rings for my XFi rebuild, and help anyone who wants to do something similar. I hope to gather the orders of all interested parties by the end of the month. Please spread the word to whomever may be interested.

-Will

__________________
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 02-02-2010, 06:32 PM   #2 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 134

Deceptive - '98 Dodge Neon R/T
90 day: 44.38 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3
Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts
this is something i will be doing with my neon as well, also from total seal, as recommended by a professional road racer and inside source from chrysler.

Benifits for my 3 ring set up is almost 100 percent seal from the top ring, allowing lower ring tension on the secondary ring, allowing more power (and efficiency), and less friction.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 06:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Wonderboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 674

The Fruit Bat - '01 Honda Insight
Last 3: 54.26 mpg (US)

Current - '21 Subaru Impreza Wagon
90 day: 34.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 40
Thanked 39 Times in 27 Posts
Ooooo maybe we could rope an ecomodder out in that neck of the woods to go pick up the order so the rings only need to get shipped once (= fuel savings!) Eh? Any left coast takers? Carlos?
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 07:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
Moderate your Moderation.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Troy, Pa.
Posts: 8,919

Pasta - '96 Volkswagen Passat TDi
90 day: 45.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,369
Thanked 430 Times in 353 Posts
If I'd have gotten those Metros I was looking at (as opposed to getting jerked around by the guy), I'd have so been in on this for 2 sets. I was going to build both engines to XFi specs and sell one (or keep it as a spare if I couldn't get a decent price for it).

Alas, I am Metro-less.
__________________
"¿ʞɐǝɹɟ ɐ ǝɹ,noʎ uǝɥʍ 'ʇı ʇ,usı 'ʎlǝuol s,ʇı"

  Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 11:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
Too many cars
 
Gasoline Fumes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York State
Posts: 1,610

CRXFi - '88 Honda CRX XFi

Insight 256 - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Gen-1 Insights

Insight 5342 (no IMA) - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Gen-1 Insights
90 day: 66.3 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,360
Thanked 810 Times in 481 Posts
I checked a couple of GM parts sites and found the rings. It might be a good idea to verify they are are the correct rings before ordering them. I assume "w/o LSI" would be the XFi. And I assume the price is per cylinder. I could use 7 of the "gapless" top rings....

http://www.gm-parts-dealer.com/
http://www.gmpartscheap.com/
There might be other sites too, I only checked a few.

Pistons, rings & bearings, Piston rings
Metro, w/o LSI - 1.0l
List Price : $33.00
Your Price : $26.40

Pistons, rings & bearings, Piston rings
Metro, w/LSI - 1.0l
List Price : $42.82
Your Price : $34.26

XFi decals are available too!
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 11:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Wonderboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 674

The Fruit Bat - '01 Honda Insight
Last 3: 54.26 mpg (US)

Current - '21 Subaru Impreza Wagon
90 day: 34.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 40
Thanked 39 Times in 27 Posts
Good find Gasoline Fumes...Do you want to contact them to find out whether those are the rings we're looking for? I could do it too, I just don't want to be the second or third person to contact them within a week about the same exact thing.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 11:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
Too many cars
 
Gasoline Fumes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York State
Posts: 1,610

CRXFi - '88 Honda CRX XFi

Insight 256 - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Gen-1 Insights

Insight 5342 (no IMA) - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Gen-1 Insights
90 day: 66.3 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,360
Thanked 810 Times in 481 Posts
GM part number for the XFi rings is 96061652. Now for the bad news, both a local GM dealer and GmPartsDirect.com have informed me that the rings have been discontinued. The dealer checked and no dealers in the US have any.
I don't know what you'll get if you order the rings from one of the site that still lists them.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 11:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
Moderate your Moderation.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Troy, Pa.
Posts: 8,919

Pasta - '96 Volkswagen Passat TDi
90 day: 45.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,369
Thanked 430 Times in 353 Posts
Guys, did Suzuki use these rings in any of their engines?

What are the odds of being able to take a bigger (1mm or so) ring and filing it at a steep angle to approximate the gapless design?

If the XFi's rings are 74mm, rings from D-series engines (Honda) should work... they're 75mm pistons.

I'm not sure if it would work or not, but NPR sells Honda D series rings cheap enough that it might be worth it to try.

Will, I've got some old D-series rings still on pistons, maybe. I could send a couple to each of you if I can find them, and that way you could both work on trying to make a gapless ring from a slightly larger one?

Thinking about it, I may not have those rings. I'll have to take a look the next time I'm at my Father's house before I offer them.
__________________
"¿ʞɐǝɹɟ ɐ ǝɹ,noʎ uǝɥʍ 'ʇı ʇ,usı 'ʎlǝuol s,ʇı"

  Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 11:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Wonderboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 674

The Fruit Bat - '01 Honda Insight
Last 3: 54.26 mpg (US)

Current - '21 Subaru Impreza Wagon
90 day: 34.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 40
Thanked 39 Times in 27 Posts
So maybe we're thinking the quoted price from totalseal was a bit steep? I wouldn't mind taking a crack at making my own gapless rings with a vise and some fancy filing work if I had some junk rings to try it out on. Anyone got old 75-77mm rings to mail to me? What is the likelihood of this working if the filing job were to be flawless? Would a 75-77mm ring still make a perfectly circular compression seal in a 74mm bore if it were made gapless down to 74mm?
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 11:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
Moderate your Moderation.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Troy, Pa.
Posts: 8,919

Pasta - '96 Volkswagen Passat TDi
90 day: 45.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,369
Thanked 430 Times in 353 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderboy View Post
So maybe we're thinking the quoted price from totalseal was a bit steep? I wouldn't mind taking a crack at making my own gapless rings with a vise and some fancy filing work if I had some junk rings to try it out on. Anyone got old 75-77mm rings to mail to me? What is the likelihood of this working if the filing job were to be flawless? Would a 75-77mm ring still make a perfectly circular compression seal in a 74mm bore if it were made gapless down to 74mm?
I get this weekend all to myself (wife and kid free, not actually to myself), so I'm going to look around at my Father's house and see if I've got any 75mm std bore rings from some old Honda pistons.

If you have a blown Honda engine laying around, it might be worth it to check it out, too. I know your one friend was having trouble, dunno what happened with that.

I would think that 1 or 2mm should be within tolerance for rings seating properly, but don't take my word for it.

Side note - Are you going to be at PAP this weekend, and should I bring anything with me?

__________________
"¿ʞɐǝɹɟ ɐ ǝɹ,noʎ uǝɥʍ 'ʇı ʇ,usı 'ʎlǝuol s,ʇı"

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Record summer! (Consistent 75+ MPG from Geo Metro) jwxr7 Success Stories 62 05-22-2014 07:16 PM
MPG Gauge for the Geo Metro XFi Wayneburg General Efficiency Discussion 2 03-10-2011 07:48 PM
1992 Metro sedan needs a new engine - What/Where/How - advice appreciated greatly! Crono EcoModding Central 26 11-18-2008 02:42 AM
1990 Geo Metro Idle test cinaroh EcoModding Central 2 07-08-2008 11:15 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com