Germany paid customers to use power

[ksa8907]

I'd love to conserve like you guys, family of 4 means I can't be a scruge too much. Around $100 for roughly 800kwh. $.10 base for 0-500kwh and $.5 base for 500+kwh. Bunch of riders tacked on that brings up the kwh cost.

Our big electric users are the range/oven (We cook a lot), water heater, clothes dryer, and hvac. As appliances die I will convert to NG.

[oil pan 4]

Convert to NG the sooner the better.

I use both a gas and electric dryer. Gas in the summer, for 2 reasons, it's cheaper then and it gets vented outside.
Electric for inside, vented into the house for the warmth and humidity.
You can sell the working electric appliances to help pay for the gas ones. Waiting till the electric rigs quit is only costing you more and more money.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Yeah, I've known my "cooperative" sucks for years. Doesn't change the point.

But that also brings up another point: were I a heavy electricity user my cost/Kwh would drop dramatically. So much for conservation incentive.

A whopping $3 less: Average Monthly Electrical Bill by State

Are you purposely using selective facts and N=1 examples to mislead people? Your cost per kWh could be infinite if you use no electricity but are still billed fixed costs.

It's absurd to assume people are motivated to consume more electricity just to reduce their cost per kWh. Most people don't even know what their electric bill is, and even fewer know what the rate is.

The relevant issue at hand is the marginal consumer cost (cost for each additional unit) of electricity. Without stating it outright, I alluded to the fact that the marginal cost for German power production is orders of magnitude more expensive than the US, and higher than most everywhere else.

German household power prices have reached a record high in early 2017 while wholesale prices are sinking. But despite the fact that Germans pay among the highest per-unit rates in Europe, their support for the Energiewende – the shift to a low-carbon economy – is strong.

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/fact...olds-pay-power

US homes are twice the size of German homes, consume over 3x more electricity while the average bill is lower.



The Germans can have their few hours of getting paid to consume electricity, I'll take my consistently low electric rate.

A truly progressive scheme for electricity pricing would be to bill initial kWh consumption at a low rate, and progressively higher rates with increasing use. Of course, people would then install multiple meters to mitigate these expenses.

It's probably best just to leave the unit cost alone, just as my clothing (or puppy, or most anything) costs are independent of the amount I purchase.

Originally Posted by ksa8907

I'd love to conserve like you guys, family of 4 means I can't be a scruge too much. Around $100 for roughly 800kwh. $.10 base for 0-500kwh and $.5 base for 500+kwh. Bunch of riders tacked on that brings up the kwh cost.

Our big electric users are the range/oven (We cook a lot), water heater, clothes dryer, and hvac. As appliances die I will convert to NG.

Likely a wise financial decision in the short run. In the long run (20 years?) I see natural gas falling out of favor as technology and policy shifts towards ever cheaper electricity. This is my instinct, although I haven't researched energy forecasts at all.

BTW, my consumption is also based on 4 people living in a 2100 sq/ft house. We have natural gas for heat, water, dryer, and BBQ. The range is a minor consideration even if you cook a lot.

[Xist]

Have you ever seen a German window?! You twist the handle one way and swing open the window. Twist the handle the other way and it tilts in!

Genius!

I like screens, though. There were always mosquitoes flying in.

[California98Civic]

I think the main point of the piece is just encouragement about the feasibility of cleaner power in the future. I would bet historically the prices for electricity in Germany have always been high. They never had much fossil fuel and they never had enough coal. The us has historically had a lot of fossil fuels and a lot of coal. The future is going to be different.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by California98Civic

I think the main point of the piece is just encouragement about the feasibility of cleaner power in the future. I would bet historically the prices for electricity in Germany have always been high. They never had much fossil fuel and they never had enough coal. The us has historically had a lot of fossil fuels and a lot of coal. The future is going to be different.

I think the main point of the piece is that weather, and power generators that produce based on weather, don't pay attention to demand. They produce however much they produce, regardless of what is needed at the moment.

Free energy isn't the result of brilliant planning, rather it's the result of oversupply.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by California98Civic

They never had much fossil fuel and they never had enough coal.

Germans used synthetic gasoline, kerosene and Diesel fuel made out of locally-mined coal during WW2.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

I guess the Brits regretted having pulled the plug on Germany's coal-chemical industry when the oil shocks of the '70s kicked in

[Frank Lee]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...cid=spartanntp

More renewables. What an awful thing, right MAGATS? Let's shovel some coal!

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

I am quite conservative, but it doesn't mean that I despise renewable energies. What does bother me somewhat is all that BS about electric cars going to "save the world". I still believe the ICE won't be entirely phased out so soon, with adaptability to renewable fuels becoming a major competitive advantage, even though plug-in hybrids are likely to become mainstream sooner or later.