Going over the numbers: Toyota Matrix vs Prius

[MetroMPG]

Been a long while since I piloted a Prius, but I did find it to be one of the most entertaining cars I've driven. Rolling video game. Makes fuel saving fun.

Last hybrid I drove was my sister's Camry, which isn't nearly as friendly as a Prius, owing to the much narrower & more sensitive throttle position "window" that will achieve a true glide.

[endurance]

How do you respond to the critics that say that the expense of the batteries makes the car not worth the fuel savings? How long are they expected to last? How much performance do you lose over time? How much do they cost to replace?

If it's a once every 10 year thing and costs a few hundred bucks, I don't see the problem. If it's every 3-4 years and costs $5k, Houston, we have a problem!

[Daox]

I have absolutely no worry about the batteries not lasting. I've talked with a hybrid pack rebuilder, read the statistics on the number of failed packs (under half a percent for my generation Prius), and I've also met an owner who had a gen 1 prius for 350k miles before he got t-boned and it was totaled. The batteries won't be a problem. If there is some odd failure and I'm out of warranty, pack rebuilding is a pretty cheap alternative, usually under $1k to fix. I'm not sure of the performance loss over time. I'm sure there is some.

As for fuel savings and cost, I really do believe its there. I bought my 03 Matrix for $10k 3 years ago. One year ago I got my 04 Prius for $12k. No offense to the Matrix which I love, but the Prius has a TON more features and is just a nicer car. I'm currently saving around $640 per year. The direct comparison shows I paid $2k more for the Prius and I have an ROI of 3.1 years. But, the Matrix was an 03 (60k miles when I bought it), and the Prius is an 04 (40k miles when I bought it), so there is a year difference. Is that a fair comparison? I dunno. If we look at the numbers right off edmunds, a 04 Matrix with the options I had (not many, it was a base model) is worth $5600, and an 04 Prius with my options (which is nearly everything) is worth $9400. So, we have a difference of $3800 and ROI of 5.9 years. In both cases it pays for itself, but it does take time. Both cars have been incredibly reliable and have never had any major repairs.

[endurance]

Wow, from what you're saying, it sure sound like much ado about nothing. Agreed, if you can get an extra 10+mpg out of one for even five years for a $1000 battery, then why do people bad mouth them? Interesting. They aren't holding their resale nearly as well as I thought they would, which is good for me if I'm looking in another couple of years. Then again, that assumes stable gas prices for the next couple of years and no spike between now and then causing an increase in demand... a dangerous assumption... I figure we're always one Iranian mine in the Straits of Hormuz away from $5-7/gallon gasoline and every SUV driving soccer mom in America buying a Prius shortly thereafter.

[user removed]

2004 Toyota Prius

If you don't mind higher mileage.

regards
Mech

[RobertSmalls]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Been a long while since I piloted a Prius, but I did find it to be one of the most entertaining cars I've driven. Rolling video game. Makes fuel saving fun.

That's what I think about the Insight, especially with the manual transmission and manual IMA. How's the Prius compare to a stick shifted Honda hybrid in terms of Fahrvergnügen?

[endurance]

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

2004 Toyota Prius
If you don't mind higher mileage.
regards
Mech

Tease! I could pretty much sell the Acura tomorrow and break even buying that. Then again, where would be the challenge in getting 50mpg after that?

@ Robert: I've read some downright cutting reviews of the Civic Hybrid on Yahoo! Autos. Nothing like what I see in the reviews for the Prius & Insight. As always, it's the internet and it could be the same person posting a dozen reviews under different names, but it ain't pretty.