Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Off-Topic Tech
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-17-2018, 09:24 AM   #11 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,044

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,132
Thanked 2,085 Times in 1,259 Posts
We can get all the electricity we need from renewable sources. Therefore, this method of smelting aluminum could be carbon free.

There are many ways to get energy. The sun alone has enough energy hitting the earth in ONE DAY to power ALL HUMAN NEEDS - for 27 YEARS.

Aluminum needs to be recycled, which only takes 10% as much energy as smelting it.

__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 05-17-2018, 09:44 AM   #12 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
sendler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Posts: 2,305

Honda CBR250R FI Single - '11 Honda CBR250R
90 day: 108.03 mpg (US)

Ninja 250R SE Green - '09 Kawasaki Ninja 250R SE
90 day: 65.9 mpg (US)

2001 Honda Insight stick - '01 Honda Insight manual
90 day: 60.68 mpg (US)

2009 Honda Fit auto - '09 Honda Fit Auto
90 day: 38.51 mpg (US)

Kawi Ninja650 - '07 Kawasaki Ninja650
90 day: 54.85 mpg (US)

PCX153 - '13 Honda PCX150
90 day: 104.48 mpg (US)

2015 Yamaha R3 - '15 Yamaha R3
90 day: 81.28 mpg (US)
Thanks: 286
Thanked 732 Times in 545 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
We can get all the electricity we need from renewable sources. Therefore, this method of smelting aluminum could be carbon free.

There are many ways to get energy. The sun alone has enough energy hitting the earth in ONE DAY to power ALL HUMAN NEEDS - for 27 YEARS.

Aluminum needs to be recycled, which only takes 10% as much energy as smelting it.
Well.... We have been through this on the other thread. Just because energy hits the earth, doesn't mean we can build out enough hardware to capture, transmit and store it. People have no concept how big the 17 TeraWatts we are currently blowing through is.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 11:56 AM   #13 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 5,841

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Shocker - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 136.71 mpg (US)
Thanks: 135
Thanked 1,468 Times in 1,094 Posts
Yeah where I work uses a pretty consistent load of around 20 megawatts. I would like to see renewables power that with 24hr reliability.

I just said aluminum plants normally use hydro electric power because it's the only production method cheap enough and still has the reliability to run a full shift providing the power needed.

Seems to me like the better option is to use less power.
Keep recyceing, use the same aluminum smelting process, use less power so more hydro electric is available to off set combustion fuelled plants.

Or use more power to make possibly greener aluminum and just run fossil fuels plants harder some where further down the line to make up for the extra power used by the aluminum plant.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white 240v evse mod, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 01:00 PM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,044

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,132
Thanked 2,085 Times in 1,259 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
Well.... We have been through this on the other thread. Just because energy hits the earth, doesn't mean we can build out enough hardware to capture, transmit and store it. People have no concept how big the 17 TeraWatts we are currently blowing through is.
With about 10,000 sq km of solar, with storage - would alone be enough to power the ENTIRE US grid. Cover large roofs, and parking areas, and capped land fills - and I am sure we could get much more than we need.

Add wind (land and off shore) and wave, tidal, biomass, geothermal - and we can get as much as 16X the energy we need.

Here's a plan to do 100% renewable energy: Our 100% Clean Energy Vision - The Solutions Project

This will pay for itself in short order with big reductions in health problems, and reduced premature deaths; never mind climate change.
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 01:11 PM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
sendler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Posts: 2,305

Honda CBR250R FI Single - '11 Honda CBR250R
90 day: 108.03 mpg (US)

Ninja 250R SE Green - '09 Kawasaki Ninja 250R SE
90 day: 65.9 mpg (US)

2001 Honda Insight stick - '01 Honda Insight manual
90 day: 60.68 mpg (US)

2009 Honda Fit auto - '09 Honda Fit Auto
90 day: 38.51 mpg (US)

Kawi Ninja650 - '07 Kawasaki Ninja650
90 day: 54.85 mpg (US)

PCX153 - '13 Honda PCX150
90 day: 104.48 mpg (US)

2015 Yamaha R3 - '15 Yamaha R3
90 day: 81.28 mpg (US)
Thanks: 286
Thanked 732 Times in 545 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
Here's a plan to do 100% renewable energy: Our 100% Clean Energy Vision - The Solutions Project
Here are a few studies with the missing numbers omitted from the Solutions Project report that show the complete fallacy of even replacing electricity, let alone another 5x to replace all energy with rebuildables.
.
A summary at a glance.
.
.

.
.
In case you didn't see this in the other thread here is some information that can help you understand the inaccuracies in the Solution Project report.
Roadmap To Nowhere puts some numbers and math that was missing from the Solutions Project into the equation to show the scale of trying to replace all energy with rebuildables.
.
The Myth of Powering the Nation With Renewable Energy
.
David MacKay was an engineer that also did a good and open minded study of the feasibility of rebuildables replacing all energy. Or even trying just to just replace all electricity. Which is only 20-30% of total energy consumption.
.
https://www.withouthotair.com/
.
Nate Hagens is a very modest genius who has devoted the second half of his life to studying a synthesis of everything from energy, economy, ecology, psychology, evolution. And stands on the shoulders of many giants which he links to in his University course which I was honored to shadow from home last fall. I am very anxiously waiting the download release of his two, 1,000 page , free, books, so that I can have a quicker reference to the compiled facts.
His video presentations are essential to an educated person's understanding of where we are going and are a very easy watch. The key take away for me was understanding the concept of embodied energy and the 300 fossil slaves holding each American up right now. He needs work on his site and youtube channel though
.
https://youtu.be/YUSpsT6Oqrg
.
https://youtu.be/rrN0lbbSVOA
.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 01:15 PM   #16 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 4,854

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 61.67 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,697
Thanked 1,382 Times in 946 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
... Here's a plan to do 100% renewable energy: Our 100% Clean Energy Vision - The Solutions Project ...
Fun map. And these estimate and projections probably assume current technology, forgetting the possibility for breakthroughs in generation and storage tech.

Obviously, if the grid could become completely clean, this new aluminum process is all the more revolutionary. But there are entrenched political impediments. Maybe they can be cleared, but we certainly cannot wave it away.

I also would question the mining and production of "proprietary materials." Rio Tinto is a nasty miner. For example, they have a cruel and ecologically devastating mine proposal under development at Oak Flat in Arizona. An historic and sacred site to regional Apaches, also a state park, will be wiped off the map, turned into a giant toxic crater, because it is the most profitable way to get at the ore below. If that is how Rio Tinto hopes to get its "proprietary material" I think we might want to consider it a bit more closely and skeptically.
__________________


See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 01:47 PM   #17 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 5,841

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Shocker - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 136.71 mpg (US)
Thanks: 135
Thanked 1,468 Times in 1,094 Posts
So yeah, probably best just to try and use less energy.

All the breakthroughs that we will likely see have happened, such as the 40ish percent efficient solar panels. They put out double the power for their size but cost at least 20x to 40x per watt more than current panels in use.
The panels we have now are the sum of efforts to get the most watts for the least $.

To solar and wind power everything will require a lot of sacrifice, mines, wind farms, solar panels are going to have to be put where people don't want them.
Be carefulwhat you wish fpr, you just might get it.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white 240v evse mod, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2018, 09:23 AM   #18 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,346

Traverse 2LT FWD - '12 Chevrolet Traverse 2LT
90 day: 21.2 mpg (US)

Volt, gas only - '12 Chevrolet Volt Premium
90 day: 42.14 mpg (US)

Volt, electric only - '12 Chevrolet Volt Premium
90 day: 132.97 mpg (US)
Thanks: 123
Thanked 288 Times in 194 Posts
Here's a news story with some mention of the new process and power needs.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cou.../amp/612255002
__________________




  Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2018, 10:24 AM   #19 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 5,841

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Shocker - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 136.71 mpg (US)
Thanks: 135
Thanked 1,468 Times in 1,094 Posts
They generate the power for the carbon free process using an on site coal fired power plant.
Hilarious.
What's not funny is its bringing back 275 jobs.
That's most important.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white 240v evse mod, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2018, 02:04 PM   #20 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 4,854

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 61.67 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,697
Thanked 1,382 Times in 946 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
They generate the power for the carbon free process using an on site coal fired power plant. ...
Yes, but althought Alcoa's breathless marketing claims shouldn't be accepted uncritically, so too the importance of the technological advance in itself shouldn't be casually dismissed because it does not answer all the problems at once. When Alcoa begins using their new process in Indiana, it seems they will reduce their overall carbon footprint--despite still having dirty power generation. When they get a cleaner power generation system, they will have still cleaner aluminum production. I guess we are stuck with limited steps.

__________________


See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com