Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-31-2015, 07:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,268
Thanks: 24,393
Thanked 7,360 Times in 4,760 Posts
Ground Clearance vs Aerodynamic Drag

Here's a visual on a Porsche 914 that was tested:
The 914 was tested at:
*180mm
*165mm
*140mm
*zero

Here is a pictorial of how the 914's effective fineness ratio varies between the two G.C. extremes.

Here we see VW's Flow Body drag vary with G.C.,and also with the addition of wheels.



Here,Ford gets a four-for,lowering their 1983 Probe-IV,lowering a deployable airdam,then hiking the rear end to finally achieve the inclination which achieves the lowest Cd and also reduces frontal area.

*The Probes official ground clearance does not take into account the effect of the fully-deployed airdam which actually reduces G.C. to about 1.92" (48.76mm)
*Lowering alters the fineness ratio from 3.702,to 3,80 (2.6%).
*The computerized attitude control moves the max. roof camber position 9.54" ( 242.3mm) aft.
*The attitude also alters the backlight-to-boot angle,from 18.5-degrees,to 16.5-degrees,a 10.8% change.
*The attitude also converts the entire belly to a 2.5-degree diffuser.
*Lowering submerges the tires into the body,however,the 3" (76.2mm) extension of the airdam raises the frontal area,leaving the car at essentially a constant 20.5 sq-ft (1.905 m-sq) frontal area.
*From scale drawings it is very difficult to discern that the final height is any lower than the 'urban' setting due to the lifted tail.
*The final initial design came in at Cd 0.17.
*Ford had anticipated Cd 0.18.
*With a lot of work on the side-view mirrors and other tricks she came in at Cd 0.152.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 1937 Schl'o'r (Pilbug) car
Neil mentioned this one and it's good for us,as Hucho included it in his book with a drag breakdown based upon ground clearance.
I did a photo-enlargement of Hucho's table and solved it graphically for the test data points included.

*The Pilbug is 1,275mm high.
*Based on this height and length we're given the following info
- @ G.C.= 3,315mm ----------------------------- Cd 0.1057 (smooth belly)
- @ G.C.= 1,730mm------------------------------ Cd 0.1086 ditto
- @ G.C.= 923mm-------------------------------- Cd 0.116 ditto
- @ G.C.= 529mm-------------------------------- Cd 0.1306 ditto
- @ G.C.= 268mm-------------------------------- Cd 0.141 ditto
- @ G.C.= 232mm-------------------------------- Cd 0.158 ditto
- @ G.C.= 232mm-------------------------------- Cd 0.186 ('Standard underbody')
- @ G.C.= 0mm---------------------------------- Cd 0.201 (guestimate) with smooth belly
- The smooth bellypan is good for a 14.67% drag reduction,or without it,the drag rises 17.72%.
I've got pictorials in the works,but Copy-Pro is closed this weekend for Easter and it will be next week at the earliest before I can progress.Also got other pans on the burner.
I'll add material as its generated.

__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/

Last edited by aerohead; 05-02-2015 at 04:33 PM.. Reason: add data
  Reply With Quote
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
2000neon (04-23-2015), BabyDiesel (04-01-2015), BamZipPow (04-01-2015), California98Civic (03-31-2015), Cd (03-31-2015), Flakbadger (04-05-2015), mcrews (04-03-2015), MetroMPG (04-22-2015), mikeyjd (04-01-2015), pgfpro (04-01-2015), skyking (11-28-2015), Vekke (04-01-2015)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 03-31-2015, 09:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,299

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,373
Thanked 2,172 Times in 1,469 Posts
That's a really big reduction on the basis of ground clearance for that porche. But the benefit of lowering would be less significant if the car had first been fitten with an under tray and/or airdam, no?
__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to California98Civic For This Useful Post:
aerohead (04-01-2015)
Old 03-31-2015, 10:36 PM   #3 (permalink)
Cd
Ultimate Fail
 
Cd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Austin,Texas
Posts: 3,585
Thanks: 2,872
Thanked 1,121 Times in 679 Posts
Doing it wrong :
Still doing it wrong :
Just right ...


We now return to our regularly scheduled topic :

Thanks for the info Phil. Dropping a car real has a big difference in drag, eh ?

I keep thinking back on that Fusion that ran at Bonneville and the amount of drag that was reduced by the drop

Here is the image :

Last edited by Cd; 04-01-2015 at 07:16 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Cd For This Useful Post:
aerohead (04-01-2015), BabyDiesel (04-03-2015), BamZipPow (04-01-2015), California98Civic (03-31-2015), Flakbadger (04-05-2015), mcrews (04-03-2015), mikeyjd (04-01-2015), pgfpro (04-01-2015), tyronasauras (04-03-2015)
Old 03-31-2015, 10:48 PM   #4 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,745

Volt, gas only - '12 Chevrolet Volt Premium
90 day: 38.02 mpg (US)

Volt, electric only - '12 Chevrolet Volt Premium
90 day: 132.26 mpg (US)

Yukon Denali Hybrid - '12 GMC Yukon Denali Hybrid
90 day: 21.48 mpg (US)
Thanks: 206
Thanked 420 Times in 302 Posts
So dropping the cts 1.5" all around may give a measurable gain?
__________________




  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ksa8907 For This Useful Post:
aerohead (04-01-2015)
Old 03-31-2015, 11:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,299

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,373
Thanked 2,172 Times in 1,469 Posts
Here is the image : [/QUOTE]

I can't help but wonder if they tested this fusion's bellypan improvement after they had already lowered it all the way down to 2" GC. The bellypan benefit was less than mirror removal, which seems counterintuitive.
__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to California98Civic For This Useful Post:
aerohead (04-01-2015), Cd (03-31-2015)
Old 04-01-2015, 12:09 AM   #6 (permalink)
Rookie Ecomodder
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Upstate NJ
Posts: 25

zoomzoom - '06 Mazda 6i sport
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by California98Civic View Post
That's a really big reduction on the basis of ground clearance for that porche. But the benefit of lowering would be less significant if the car had first been fitten with an under tray and/or airdam, no?
I would think the combination of a full belly pan and lowering would increase drag because of the pressure differentials from top compared to bottom. In essence, you're creating suction -yes?

OP -Any data on lowering in conjunction with a full bottom pan?
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to rollercoaster For This Useful Post:
aerohead (04-01-2015)
Old 04-01-2015, 12:11 AM   #7 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1,756

spyder2 - '00 Toyota MR2 Spyder
Thanks: 104
Thanked 407 Times in 312 Posts
Wow those are pretty big % changes, no wonder after lowering my old MR2 I could see higher vacuum at cruise.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2015, 09:54 AM   #8 (permalink)
Mechanical engineer
 
Vekke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kitee (Finland)
Posts: 1,272

Siitin - '98 Seat Cordoba Vario
90 day: 58.56 mpg (US)

VW Lupo 3L --> 2L - '00 VolksWagen Lupo 3L
Diesel
90 day: 104.94 mpg (US)

A8 luxury fuel sipper - '97 Audi A8 1.2 TDI 6 speed manual
90 day: 64.64 mpg (US)

Audi A4B6 Avant Niistäjä - '02 Audi A4b6 1.9tdi 96kW 3L
90 day: 54.57 mpg (US)

Tourekki - '04 VW Touareg 2.5TDI R5 6 speed manual
90 day: 32.98 mpg (US)

A2 1.4TDI - '03 Audi A2 1.4 TDI
90 day: 45.68 mpg (US)

A2 1.4 LPG - '02 Audi A2 1.4 (75hp)
90 day: 24.67 mpg (US)
Thanks: 270
Thanked 841 Times in 414 Posts
I have also studied this long time ago and if I remenber correctly if you go lower than 50mm clearance it does not help anymore :/.

You can try to find details of the Bugatti veyron as it lowers at high speeds.
__________________


https://www.linkedin.com/in/vesatiainen/

Vesa Tiainen innovation engineer and automotive enthusiast
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Vekke For This Useful Post:
aerohead (04-01-2015), NeilBlanchard (04-01-2015)
Old 04-01-2015, 12:15 PM   #9 (permalink)
EcoMod Proof of Concept
 
WD40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chilliwack B.C. CANADA
Posts: 245

WD-40's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
Gen-1 Insights
Team Honda
90 day: 56.04 mpg (US)

WD-40's Mirage - '15 Mitsubushi Mirage ES
Mitsubishi
90 day: 46.05 mpg (US)

WD-40's Sonata Hybrid - '17 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Limited
Thanks: 81
Thanked 85 Times in 45 Posts
While I was recently searching the motor vehicle act for British Columbia, I read that there is a law regarding road clearances.
The strange part was that all it mentioned was nothing can be lower than the bottom of the wheel rim itself, so those of you with low profile tires can go the lowest.
The reason I was looking was for the front and rear wheel spats that I "had" on my VX.
One of the things the cop mentioned to me was that they were to low to the ground, well in fact they were still within the legal area.
Know your local rules and regulations regarding your car.
__________________
2000 Insight MT 106K Citrus A/C
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to WD40 For This Useful Post:
aerohead (04-01-2015)
Old 04-01-2015, 01:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Motor City
Posts: 281
Thanks: 0
Thanked 223 Times in 138 Posts
I've always though that lowering a car had more to do with lessening frontal area and hence drag than actual drag coefficient.

I know that when measuring small changes, like mirror removal, they don't recalculate the frontal area, just take it as an improvement in drag. Maybe that's what's going on here? Probably never know for sure, but anyone have any solid facts?

  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ennored For This Useful Post:
aerohead (04-01-2015), California98Civic (05-02-2015)
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com