The guy that survives on no money.

[Frank Lee]

I believe it would be morally wrong to withhold your skills from society

I have skills but past employers were more interested in office politics. Now my skills are for me only.

There is a LOT of fat of the land to scavenge!!! American slobs throw enough in the dump to sustain another entire society. If "mooching" involves gainfully and properly utilizing a resource that would otherwise go to waste, then I'm all for it.

[outsidethebox]

Thank You!!! That was a good read. I love the idea of converting waste to resource. Often people ask me how they can make more money. I tell them you have a limited amount of income. If you cut your fixed expenses you will not spend as much and you will have more. His life must be an adventure living as he does, like a hunter gatherer he must always be looking for the obvious opportunity to collect things he needs.

[skyl4rk]

I do not agree that the individual should attempt to maximize his support of society. Many individuals are trying to avoid society because of the damage society has done to them.

[bgd73]

Originally Posted by skyl4rk

I do not agree that the individual should attempt to maximize his support of society. Many individuals are trying to avoid society because of the damage society has done to them.

True. It seems the more one has, and known to be inocent, the more likely to be inspired to crawl off after the epiphany..nobody cares..

I myself am a typical case of broken. I have no mercy at all. Money is number 1 not to have alot of.
Self declared kings is americas retardation, nepptism like a royalty..we have to watch the money fail..and everything that could move on truthfully with it. automobiles for example..
I am still better off with facts, no blue book value and a mig welder.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by alohaspirit

If I didnt mooch it, then every resource that went into making that would be lost.

But taking something that would otherwise be thrown away isn't mooching. Mooching would be if you made a habit of showing up at your friend's house every night around dinnertime...

[RobertSmalls]

Originally Posted by dcb

Hmm... Is it ethical to put social stigmas and artificial expectations on someone who has had their fill of society?

It's unfair and maybe impolite, but it may be morally right. As an ethical Utilitarian, I believe that the moral value of anything is determined by its outcome. So if I light a fire under a man's ass, it was the right thing to do if it got him to pull himself out of absolute poverty and into a shack where he's ultimately more comfortable.

Utilitarianism is a good basis for your moral compass. The action which does the most to improve conditions for people is, ethically, the best. However, what is the quantity you want to maximize? Happiness? Pleasure?

Pleasure seems so awfully arbitrary to me. Once the needs of the body are met, as they are for all but the poorest 1.5 billion people on earth, we have no further need to enjoy the taste of food or the comfort of a warm bath. I believe a hedonistic utopia would look something like this, which I find repugnant.

Happiness is fine, but the relentless pursuit of happiness will leave our descendants no better off than we are. I believe a life of pleasure, happiness, and contribution to technological advancement, is the right kind of life to live. In fact, if you look at Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs (and you should look it up), you find pleasure at the bottom, happiness in the middle, and progress at the top. The rest of the things on Maslow's list are also worthwhile pursuits.

My moral compass says the most moral course of action is to enjoy life while living up to your full potential, and to help others to do the same.

I am not a saint.

[Frank Lee]

Oof-da. I'm living up to about 1% of my potential. Hope I don't burn in Hell for it.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls

It's unfair and maybe impolite, but it may be morally right.

or it may be morally wrong, is the world not a big enough place for a couple cave dwellers? Do we need to impose capitalistic values on the fourth world so kids can assemble crap for us all day?

[Christ]

It is not morally correct (in my views) to suggest that another person is morally incorrect without evaluating the entire situation.

By removing himself from society as a whole, he's drawn attention to himself from that same society that he apparently wants no part of. Even negative attention is attention, as a child would inevitably say. You still care, in some form or another.

By removing himself from society as a whole, that man may actually be performing the greater good for society, by helping to teach them that they don't always need to be consumer minded, don't necessarily need to make $15/hour to survive, don't need to overspend on ridiculously priced goods and services that DON'T serve the greater good (and thus, are immoral, by your opinion), don't need to drive cars and SUVs everywhere they go.

He's teaching people, even if they don't acknowledge it, and teaching is a far greater form of contribution than any labor could be, as we know from the fish/corn stories.

How, now, is this man being immoral?

[Piwoslaw]

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls

I believe it would be morally wrong to withhold your skills from society

If someone got their education from public schools (tax payers paid for it), then that person should give something back to society. Look at Chris McCandless from Krakauer's book "Into the wild": He goes through the public schooling system, and soon after finishing high school goes to live off the land in Alaska. Take, don't give. On the other hand, noone asked him if he wants to go to school, as school is usually inficted on people at a young age, often against their will.

On the other hand, if someone is self-educated then he himself should decide on which skills he shares with society. If somebody knows how to construct a bomb using household materials, should he go ahead and do it? Should he publish this info on the Web or should he keep it to himself? My personal opinion is that he should keep it to himself, because people can't be trusted to act intelligently and/or morally. In an ideal world he would publish it, and that info would be there for scientific purposes, not for killing others.

Originally Posted by jamesqf

But taking something that would otherwise be thrown away isn't mooching. Mooching would be if you made a habit of showing up at your friend's house every night around dinnertime...

Personally I have nothing against eating someone's left-overs. On many occasions I've polished off someone's plate. Unfortunately, I've had to resign from many more plates, since society doesn't approve of this behaviour. I've never done it because I didn't have money for food, but b/c I don't like things to get wasted. If I can eat something that would normally get tossed, and save some money at the time, then good. If I use that saved money on something useful, like donating to a charity or buying someone a lunch, then even better. Having somebody else sponsor your food when you can easily afford it is not good. In an ideal world, people wouldn't waste so much. They would eat out the fridge before buy more junk. Restaurants would have more portion size options than "Jumbo" and "XXXL", allowing people to eat less without throwing anything out.