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Old 01-28-2014, 02:33 PM   #11 (permalink)
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How much range are you thinking for a ST EV?

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Old 01-28-2014, 03:33 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Dad's Jetta - '05 Volkswagen Jetta 2.5l package one
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I went looking for a mileage rating for my VFR800, just to give people a benchmark for comparison. The EPA doesn't test motorcycles for mileage, just emissions, so I was looking for an independent test source. I found a couple of magazines that use their own test on some bikes they review, and even others that list the mileages they got, but none have a standardized test. I thought I would just poll, the riding groups that I belong to, and then average the numbers, but that still would not be a standardized mileage test.
So, What is the group opinion, use an "average" mpg built from a thousand people that ride the same model bike, or use some magazines mileage?
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Old 01-28-2014, 04:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Welcome.

I couldn't find EU test results for MPG (which would have been close enough to EPA as makes no odds) - I don't think the EU tests MPG either EDIT for motorcycles.

Fuelly has a load of entries for VFR800 owners here which range from very low to very high - those are generally real world users so a good range of experience to compare against or aim for.

As for HHO it sits like a neglected toy in the Unicorn Corral awaiting someone to provide concrete evidence of it doing anything really.

Bennelson has videos on how to do an EV conversion if that helps.
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Old 01-29-2014, 12:24 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecoTex View Post
Welcome Viking , I think I can speak for everyone here in saying we are anxiously waiting to see someone prove the value of an HHO system!
Well I hope to show the community that HHO can yield some great improvements in IC engine efficiency.


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Originally Posted by elhigh View Post
I too would like to see someone back up the HHO with hard numbers. As far as I'm concerned it's snake oil.
Well I said I would look at this article.
I did, all I can say is Wow, what crap.
The cell shown in the linked page is a terrible example of an HHO booster. Between the current leakage, too few plates, unknown plate material, excessive gaps between plates, poor connection, terrible isolation, lack of circulation, marginal back-fire/electrolyte scrubber design, glass container and no power control. That's not a cell its a bomb. Designs like that are generally called 'Steaming Behemoths', because that is all that they really make. It is so far away from Faraday, that you might say its not even in the solar system.
That would be like trying to build an EV with AAA nicad batteries, 36 AWG wiring and a motor from off-road winch.

I have the first prototype for the production HHO system, but even with that the design is an isolated cell, sized for a nominal 12V system.

But a booster only works if its part of a properly sized system. Note I said system (not just a cell), that's a properly sized cell, a pump with the right flow, a large electrolyte reservoir, large gauge wiring, safety cutoff, sized drier/scrubber and a tuning device(chip, tuning module, ecu reflash, soft re-flash, etc..)

The cell design is scalable and stackable, so I can scale a system up or down, from a riding lawn mower to an 18 wheeler.
Any vehicle with Electronic controls will need the fueling maps adjusted to take advantage of the more efficient and more complete combustion.
If you make no adjustments on a pre-obdII car/truck or an efi motorcycle, you just get reduced emissions, no improvement in power or efficiency, but The ecu is not fighting you.
Unfortunately, obdII computers are designed to keep the exhaust dirty enough to keep the catalytic converters operating at their optimum temperatures. So, whatever tuning methodology is used on an obdII system, you have to override the converter efficiency protocols, or the ecu will just fight you all the way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by elhigh View Post
That said, a big guy touring an 800 with 140lbs of luggage (seriously?) is hard to hypermile on the highway. I'd want to see what a non-HHO bike (not a friend's, yours) delivered under similar circumstances.
Well as I showed earlier with the 5 tanks mileage, the cell makes a difference. A significant difference.
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Old 01-29-2014, 03:49 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redveloce View Post
How much range are you thinking for a ST EV?
I want a range of 250-300 miles, roughly the equivalent of a full tank of gas on my VFR with out the HHO booster running. That would mellow out my rides to group rides, as I'd get up in the morning and leave on a full charge, then charge it while eating a leisurely lunch, then ride another full charge worth to get to the meeting point. If I got up early, added breakfast and dinner breaks, then I could easily rack a 900 mile day.
That sort of range would even allow for detours from the route to find a charging station.
Once at the ride, we don't rack up a lot of miles on any day loop, so a full overnight charge at the hotel would probably be enough for 'ride' loops, if not there's always a chance to recharge a bit when we break for lunch. Most loops on these rides are around 300 miles, as that allows for a reasonable lunch break, photo stops and still having enough time to get back before dinner.
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Old 01-29-2014, 04:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Dad's Jetta - '05 Volkswagen Jetta 2.5l package one
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Black Cherry - '01 Honda VFR800fi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arragonis View Post
I couldn't find EU test results for MPG (which would have been close enough to EPA as makes no odds) - I don't think the EU tests MPG either EDIT for motorcycles.

Fuelly has a load of entries for VFR800 owners here which range from very low to very high - those are generally real world users so a good range of experience to compare against or aim for.

As for HHO it sits like a neglected toy in the Unicorn Corral awaiting someone to provide concrete evidence of it doing anything really.

Bennelson has videos on how to do an EV conversion if that helps.
I'm on Fuelly with the bike before the tuner and after adding the tuner. The Issue there is that I have to compile all the numbers from all those other VFR800 owners.
I can't use the one average mpg feature that Fuelly has because their system does not differentiate non-Vtec VFR800's and the Vtec VFR800's (two totally different motorcycles).
I guess that's better than nothing though.

As for the Unicorn Corral reference, I blame the junk and misinformation out there. I mean there are far too many DIY, build this from your trashcan and those sort of things. There are far too many people slapping a few bits of junk together and then selling it on EBay or on their own junk websites. The worst is some vendors are dealers for quality systems but they don't understand how the systems work, so they make mistakes that cost the reputation of good designs.
I don't want to think about how many systems I've had to fix, because the brand dealer did not give out correct information or perform a proper installation.

I'll definitely look into the videos.
I'm looking into what controls have to be added and/or removed to allow the EV conversion to work with the OEM early CAN network.

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