HHO-only Diesel car

[oil pan 4]

An exhaust filter like they use on diesel driven equipment in mines.

[smallscaleH2]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

An exhaust filter like they use on diesel driven equipment in mines.

I looked into it.
There are the MicroFresh filters developed for diesels in mining (see here ). I assume they're paper filters.

Most other diesel filters are diesel particulate filters and diesel oxidation catalysts (aka catalytic converters). See here.

I actually don't like either, since I want something that doesn't clog up over time and requires maintenance. Oil bath and water bath air filters also exist, and could perhaps also be used on exhaust pipes, but I also don't want to restrict the flow going out.

This is why I proposed the water spray over the tailpipe. Has anyone done this ?

[niky]

With a diesel engine, water injection in the intake improves BOTH power AND emissions, without requiring bulky batteries or assemblies. Just a small water tank, a pump, an injector and a controller. We've seen 20-30 hp gained on the dyno for more powerful engines. For simpler, older turbodiesels, expect maybe half that or less (on a crude mechanical injection diesel that makes just 60-ish hp, it gives about 5-6 hp).

There are claims that it also improves economy if you tune the engine for it, but I have yet to see this verified by a third party. That said, you can indeed tune the engine more aggressively with water or meth spray, so theoretically, it should result in better economy after a custom tune.

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Spraying water mist in the exhaust should lessen particulate emissions, true, but better to nip them in the bud by spraying at the intake.

[smallscaleH2]

Originally Posted by niky

Spraying water mist in the exhaust should lessen particulate emissions, true, but better to nip them in the bud by spraying at the intake.

Well, that's something I actually don't want to do. Reason is that I could then still combine it easily with the hydrogen injection system. If I also add in water injection things get overly complicated, and may not even work any more.

There are 3 methods I was thinking of to make the spary system:
* either by using a battery-operated garden sprayer (see here )
* or by using a garden misting system (see here )
* or by simply attaching a metal box directly to the exhaust pipe which is connected with a small hose and water tank (in the car) and a water outlet with misting nozzle above the exhaust pipe.

The last method is the one I prefer, although it reduces the outlet gas flow a bit (since it cools the pipe somewhat). Benefit with this system is that the heat from the pipe heats up the water, making a battery unnecessary. Also, I won't need to make any changes to the electronics (as the spray system would only be allowed to operate when the engine's running). By calculating out the hose diameter and making it small enough, I can restrict water flow, so it doesn't spray too much water either (that way I can keep the water tank small as well). Also, the water tank sits above the the metal box it's connected to, meaning the whole is gravity-powered and doesn't need any pump either. I will need to find a metal spray nozzle though (most are plastic) since this is going to get very hot, and I'll need to custom-make the metal box.

[niky]

What are your planned results?

Simply spraying water randomly into the exhaust is a no-starter.

The only answer that makes sense is an alternator driven pump.

And IF you're going the roundabout route of spraying the exhaust instead of the intake, you want to spray it before the EGR valve to maximize cleaning (clean the exhaust, clean soot out of the EGR... big issue for diesels driven in traffic or primarily at low rpms) and to increase the benefits of EGR cooling (Mazda specifically uses cooled EGR for its SkyActiv motors).

Also, the obsession with hydrogen. Dude, you need to set your practical goals, decide what you want to do first and what is most cost effecitve, and do it. Having both water injection and hydrogen injection means twice the complication and twice the added hardware.

Keep it simple. Do one thing. Test. Evaluate results. Evaluate cost-effectiveness. Then do another.

I specifically cited Mazda because this is the kind of research you should be doing. Research what the OEMs are doing. Research what the racing teams are doing. They do those things because they work. Sometimes, they won't use them specifically because of the expense (meth injection) or because of the added complication (cooled EGR... but it's now becoming more common).

Try to note what OEMs DO NOT research. And try to figure out why...

[ar5boosted]

Originally Posted by niky

Having both water injection and hydrogen injection means twice the complication and twice the added hardware.

Keep it simple. Do one thing. Test. Evaluate results. Evaluate cost-effectiveness. Then do another.

I snipped the post but I think this is the key but in the reverse order.

If you get the HHO combustion working properly, then you will be melting the metal. So i'd be aiming for that. If you get that far, then you're probably on the right track.

Spraying water mist to cool it down isn't so hard. Just getting it all rolled together to work seamlessly will be .. time consuming.

With a lot of attempts at getting HHO working with petrol-engines people often gave up when they burnt out the head-gaskets. But SM had some type of recirculation system where he'd use exhaust steam as an input.

Anyway, I've never done it and may never but if you do get any real progress please post. Just work through it one step at a time. There are other forums that have a wealth of attempts by people on this. They'd probably be able to help more perhaps.

[smallscaleH2]

Originally Posted by niky

Simply spraying water randomly into the exhaust is a no-starter.

Not into the exhaust, over the exhaust. The idea is that the exhaust gas would wash out due to the water, in plain air. This is important as in plain air, there's no waste heat from the tailpipe itself, so it's easier to wash it out.

Originally Posted by niky

The only answer that makes sense is an alternator driven pump.

I'll try a gravity-fed system first, seems simpler if I can get it to work.

Originally Posted by niky

And IF you're going the roundabout route of spraying the exhaust instead of the intake, you want to spray it before the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) valve to maximize cleaning (clean the exhaust, clean soot out of the EGR... big issue for diesels driven in traffic or primarily at low rpms) and to increase the benefits of EGR cooling (Mazda specifically uses cooled EGR for its SkyActiv motors).

Well, no. There's the heat issue mentioned above. Also, if I do it at the exhaust, the sprayer doesn't need to resist the heat either, so many of the parts can be plain plastic then.

Originally Posted by niky

Having both water injection and hydrogen injection means twice the complication and twice the added hardware.

Agreed. But this method is just a quick fix for Diesels and intented to improve air quality with these since I can't run fully on hydrogen in Diesels (hydrogen injection will work, but that's still more polluting than running on pure hydrogen). So the idea is that I get the hydrogen injection implemented first, and then make sure that much less (preferably none) of the generated air pollution gets into people's lungs.

[oil pan 4]

Want to clean up diesel tail pipe emissions then do something that actually works.
Could be as simple as running bio diesel or as complex as running natural gas intake fumigation.

[Grant-53]

Running diesel engines on natural gas is getting serious attention for the bus fleets in north central Pennsylvania as natural gas is cheap there. GE put out bids for injectors to convert their locomotive engines to natural gas. Hydrogen is a highly volatile fuel and so is prone to pre-ignition; not something useful in a turbo diesel.

[oil pan 4]

The natural gas is very pre-ignition resistant.
Unlike hydrogen and it's prone to explode nature.