HID bulbs in Halogen lamps fail govt test

[mcrews]

We agree and disagree.
ALL bulbs come with a base with notches to fit the particular design. Agreed?

The hid bulb had the correct base for the lamp. Agreed?

DO the hids come with instructions on correct aligning? (No)
(this is assuming that you can REALLY, honestly and with 100% accuracy, hand align an hid bulb)

The test is NOT to re-align every bulb to achieve success. Agreed? (understand a 'test' is to determine if a given product works as purchased......not how a smarter person would adjust it.)

That is why....it's illegal and why it fails. That is the point.
you can 'want him' to align the bulb....but that is not how things are tested.

Next,
Not sure where you get the 3x from. PLEASE ( for the third time) look at the hand written failed numbers....one is 19TIMES brighter.
There is a standard design perameter set up for lamps. the hid in the halogen lamp is 19x too bright.
Again, answer the simple question...Does the lamp generate the multiple or is the hid bulb 19x too bright?

[christofoo]

Originally Posted by mcrews

...Next,
Not sure where you get the 3x from. PLEASE ( for the third time) look at the hand written failed numbers....one is 19TIMES brighter.
There is a standard design perameter set up for lamps. the hid in the halogen lamp is 19x too bright.
Again, answer the simple question...Does the lamp generate the multiple or is the hid bulb 19x too bright?

mcrews is referring to illuminance, others are referring to luminous flux, is that not so?

Illuminance can vary across the field (non-uniformity), and at a given point is a function of luminous flux, source shape and luminary design. 'Multiplication' may arise from 'mismatch' between source shape or location and luminary design.

(... sorry I don't have time to be totally certain I'm following along, awfully busy, just trying to help...)

[Randy]

I think even the stock HIDs pass these tests more technically than in spirit. The sharp cutoff works OK on the flat a ways back, but doesn't help much at "normal" following distance or over hills. Way too often I see the road as my car's shadow in field of sickly bluish light.

The newer ones do seem to be getting better with softer cutoff and fewer bright spots, but they're more annoying than just the light level. It might be just me and my ~10 diopter glasses and their chromatic aberration but even modest HIDs have a headache-inducing dazzling glare.

There seems to be a bit of an arms race with lights. It's always sad/sweet when an oncoming sealed beam car dims its lights for you when it already seemed normal and the last few cars had you squinting at the fog line.

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by mcrews

We agree and disagree.
...
The test is NOT to re-align every bulb to achieve success. Agreed? (understand a 'test' is to determine if a given product works as purchased......not how a smarter person would adjust it.)
...

I disagree.
Mine had instructions to check and correct the alignment after fitting.

I thought it was common knowledge that you have to check the alignment after fitting, not just because of manufacturing differences but also because of bad fitting. It is always dark and raining when you need a spare. Mistakes get made, like missing a notch or bending the glass out of position.
But even if all is well the lights do differ.
I have needed to readjust halogen replacement lights quite often in 30 years of driving cars. And finally the HID set too.

So, one HID lamp in one test failed the test after fitting and not correcting the alignment where it was obviously out.
That can hardly be the base for any kind of general advice, but that is just what you do.

Suppose you fit and align the HID bulb first, then put in the halogen without realignment. It would fail!
I should start a new thread about the danger of halogens!

My advice would be to always check the alignment after fitting any type of light.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

My advice would be to always check the alignment after fitting any type of light.

Good advice.

[mcrews]

Really....you make me chuckle!
More later when I'm no my laptop

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by mcrews

Really....you make me chuckle!
More later when I'm no my laptop

Oh yeah, the H11 type lamps I use (and many other types) use rubber rings to seal the fit and keep it under tension.
The parts of the lamp that touch the lamp house are the back sides of the 3 notches.
The rubber rings can easily deform, and the edges of the lamp house may have burrs from the plastic molding process that lift the lamp ever so slightly.
At that scale even the slightest disturbance causes a noticeable effect in the light pattern.

Still chuckling?

[Cobb]

How about hids for other lamps in your car? t10, t15 and t20 bulbs like the rear back up lights, side markers, etc?

Universal HID Reverse Backup Light Kit 912 921 7440 W21W 15W Xenon White 6000K | eBay

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by Cobb

How about hids for other lamps in your car? t10, t15 and t20 bulbs like the rear back up lights, side markers, etc?

Universal HID Reverse Backup Light Kit 912 921 7440 W21W 15W Xenon White 6000K | eBay

Woho, is that even possible?

I thought HIDs could only be used as low beams and fog lights, because they take some time to get bright. Don't want to wait half a minute before I could see what I'm backing into.
I'd never buy that kit myself (would never earn the cost back, spend most of the time in the car not reversing ), but it would be nice to know the experience of people who did.

The good news is that it appears to be possible to make 15W HID lights, now if only they came as low beam replacements (and in a warmer colour) that would be a real ecomodder replacement, saving 80W a pair compared to halogens and 40W compared to bright HIDs, and be just slightly brighter than standard halogens.

[topcat]

Originally Posted by mcrews

[IMG][/IMG]

Ok, I posted facts.
See close up of Failed HID in a halogen lamp.
PLEASE look at the hand written numbers....PLEASE do your own math......
Look, IF you are right and there is NOT 10x more light from a regular HID bulb, but only 3 times, then the halogen lamp is able to MULTIPLE light! REALLY?????
Bt just to humor you....the 3x light is a fail. Period.

And if the shield on the halogen projector cuts off the 3x light.....then why use the HID?

Look up and do some research. VERY FEW companies have the equipment to measure light. I actually spoke with the testing company that generated that chart. AND I CAN GUARENTEE you that your Honda dealer does not. PERIOD.

But the focus of the article is hid fail in halogen lamps.
The rest is just common sense.

mcrew, you posted "facts" on one example of a misaligned HID in a reflector housing. It's not even worth analysing that garbage.

What is worth analysing is the HID arc diagram compared with the tungsten. Simple optics shows that that HID arc in a projector housing with a shield will put 3x more light out below the shield cutoff, and bugger all above the cut off. What more is there to say?

The best summary I can give of this is:
Only use HID in a projector housing which has a cut off shield.

It's kind of obvious that you have to:
1) Make sure the arc sits in the correct place
2) Make sure the lamp is aligned