Home heating costs?

[bennelson]

There is no temperature gauge on my water heater.

I ran some hot water into a glass and then stuck a meat thermometer in it.

I don't remember what the exact temperatures were, but it used to be that in the shower - all the way to hot was enough to be painful and now it is just hot enough. Hot, not warm, hot, but not scorching hot.

I think having a smaller house that is well insulated is a very smart long term investment. Stick that extra $100 a month you aren't spending on utilities and invest it.

[Gregte]

I set my 20 gallon electric water heater to 110F. I only use hot water for showering, nothing else. I have the heater very heavily insulated and installed a heat trap on the output pipe.

It has a 1200 watt element and it is on for 48 minutes or less per day, after I shower. This is 29.3 KWH (or less) per month at $.09 = $2.64 per month for my hot water use.

One important factor... my daily shower uses less than one gallon of water. Very easy to do once you learn the technic. I learned to do this when I was building my house and lived in a travel trailer with no water or electric grid hookup. Then I was taking a shower with 5 pints of water preheated on a propane stove.

When I first was setting up to live in the travel trailer I hoped I could take a shower in less than 5 gallons. I built a little setup with a 5 gal bucket and valve. After my first test run I was amazed at how little water is required if you do it properly. Anyway I tossed out the 5 gal. bucket and used a 2 gal. bucket (it fit better) and consistently used no more than 5 pints per shower. Hint: it requires fairly short hair.

Back on topic, I have a 780 square foot house in South Dakota and my last electric bill was $47.93 including heat.

132 KWH @ $.09 = $11.88 <-- electric use, non-heat
595 KWH @ $.04 = $23.80 <-- heat -- Mar 15 thru April 15 -- 71F day, 65F nite
$10 customer charge plus tax is the remainder.

No gas or other energy used for the home.

[bennelson]

Wow Gregte,

Mind sharing with us your house R-values? Must be something other than standard construction, right? Strawbale, earth-sheltered, something like that, right?

Living in a trailer is great training for anyone to own fewer things and get by using less.

[Gregte]

Originally Posted by bennelson

Wow Gregte,

Mind sharing with us your house R-values? Must be something other than standard construction, right? Strawbale, earth-sheltered, something like that, right?

It is pretty much standard construction... stick house on a concrete foundation. It is just a small house (30' X 26') single level with a 4' crawl space under the entire house.

The exterior walls are framed with 2 rows of 2x4 studs instead of the standard 1 row of 2x6 studs. The two rows of studs are on 16" centers but the inner row is offset 8 inches from the outer row so there is no solid wood from inside wall surface to outside except around door and window frames.

Standard fiberglass batting insulation in between all studs for a total of 7 full inches of fiberglass (2x4's are of course 3.5 inches wide).
Six inches is fiberglass batting between floor joists.
I put 18 inches of blown cellulose insulation in the attic but it has settled somewhat over the years.

Only three small windows (24"x36") in the whole house. Each of the two doors has a small window (9"x9").

It is impossible to know for sure but I suspect that the small amount of glass is the greatest energy saver.

Oh, I am single so there is only me going in and out the doors, using the fridge, taking a shower, cooking food, etc. I imagine that must make a considerable difference compared to a standard sized family.

[LostCause]

Originally Posted by bennelson

Living in a trailer is great training for anyone to own fewer things and get by using less.

I think everyone should be forced to live in a boat for a year...they don't call the shower's Gregte is describing Navy Showers for nothing.

I'm very impressed Gregte, you are a model of frugality.

- LostCause

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by Daox

Hey guys. I've been looking at houses since late winter now. I guess I'd like to see what you guys are paying on a monthly basis for electric/gas? Mention if you have any efficiency things done. I'd like some numbers to aim for.

The house I'm currently looking at is around $75/mo (yearly average) for electric which seems high to me (but I don't know anything about this stuff) and $93/mo for gas. It has gas forced air heat and central air conditioning. I'm not sure if the water heater is gas or electric. My guess would be gas. The windows are old and I'm sure very leaky. It has a dish washer too. Square footage is around 1500 and its a two story house.

was $20 winter,and maybe 50/month summer, but PCRF is eating into that, as generation costs seem to climb every month.My place is small,more a cottage than house,about 325 square feet.The shop area is more important to me than house for now.My place is a ferro-cement dome,its outsullated with 2-pound/cubic ft polyurethane foam insulation.It's passive solar oriented,with limited fenestrations,mostly to south.The place will be buried one day(earth-sheltered),however there is much to do before that happens.Electricity is my only utility other than land line phone(%22 a month ).I had propane heat,but quit using it when Enron began manipulating price.Been all solar since.It's just me here,so I'm okay with spartan living.When buried,the house will have equivalent R-90,and with thermal mass of earth around the structure,cooling cost should be a fraction.It costs about $ 15 a month to cool and de-humidify.Lower CO2 footprint in the future.

[Daox]

That sounds great Phil. I wish I could get away with something like that. The wife wouldn't stand for it though. She is energy concious, but she isn't the most willing to compromise.

The house I talked about in the original post we put an offer in and lost out on. Thankfully, we found a much better house and are currently in process of purchasing it (closing on the 25th). However, I have no idea what my energy useage will be like with that house. The previous owners had eight people in this 1600 sq/ft house and their utility bill yearly average was $280. We will start out with just me and the wife so energy useage will be very low. But, I offered to have my cousin and his wife and three kids stay with us since we'll have three extra bedrooms open. If he accepts there will be 7 of us in this house I'm just hoping to keep the utility bill under $200. It is definitly going to take some work though!

[bennelson]

Hey Daox,

If you need a hand doing some insulation work, give me a call.

I have heard that natural gas is going up 20% this winter again.

I already noticed that those "Blue Rhino" brand propane exchanges at local hardware and grocery stores jumped from $17 to $20 in my area.

Get enough people in your house and you can heat it with body heat. Just don't let people open and close the front door!

[IndyIan]

I purchased a kill-a-watt off ebay, it was $25 shipping in, from this store Shop eBay Canada Store - Battery Gallery:: Rechargeable AA Batteries
My parents have a big old freezer that we could have for free but we had no idea how much energy it used, turns out 3 times as much as a new one... So a new freezer pays for itself in 8 years vs. the free one.

In my experience big electricity loads are:
Forced air fans, especially if they are on all the time, people do this to keep basements drier.
Older freezers and fridges.
Old wash machines that leave lots of water in the clothes for the dryer.
Dryers.
Hot water tanks.
AC.
Dish washers.
And of course electric heat.

Also, the best payback that I know of in alternative energy sources is a clothesline, solar hot water heaters are good too. Simple and they last a long time too.

Also a wood stove is great alternative energy source especially if you can get free wood which isn't too hard in most urban areas, as most arborists have to pay to dump wood. We do nearly all our heating with a wood stove and its paid for itself plus the chainsaw in 4 years. I don't have a gym membership either so its good exercise splitting and stacking too.
It takes a year to figure out how run the stove well and work out your wood management system but once you have it sorted its not to much labour. Sounds like you'll have lots of help available too!
Ian

[bennelson]

IndyIan is right about electrical loads.


NEVER BUY AN APPLIANCE, new or used, WITHOUT BRINGING A KILLAWATT.

Energy use is FAR more important than the actual price of the appliance!

I would also be weary of "phantom loads" with new appliances as well. The Killawatt would let you check that too.


Wood is also a great (carbon neutral) energy source, as long as you have a free source of wood, and don't mind the work. My small parlor stove makes the place feel cozy all winter.

(PS - yes this is a STOVE. Fireplaces tend to be very IN-efficient, and can actually cause a heat LOSS)