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Old 10-30-2010, 11:27 AM   #241 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyl4rk View Post
The more aero efficient the stock design is, the less increase you will see from a tail.
Also, the shorter, less cumbersome, and more aerodynamic that tail would be.

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Old 10-30-2010, 02:36 PM   #242 (permalink)
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input

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3-Wheeler View Post
Phil,

I have to say that reading all the postings of yours over the past two years, and hearing Mike from aerocivic talk about your affect on him at the 2009 Hybrid Fest in Madison, one can reach the easy conclusion that you have affected many people here at EcoModder in a very positive way!

We are all in this together and it's great to have your input and inspiration to help us in our individual projects that we post here.

Thanks for your input.

Jim.
Thanks Jim.The twisted path of my life has exposed me to the notion that the individual can,and does make a huge difference,and I'm almost daily reminded of,or discover yet another 'hero' out there who selflessly contributes,or has contributed to a better world,my world.
And a big source of endorphins and dopamine for my shriveling brain has been the opportunity to test out,and verify some of the claims made by the pioneers of aerodynamics,heros all!
Abraham Lincoln was said to say," To know and not tell makes cowards of men." And I feel a responsibility to tell about all the things I've encountered,get the knowledge out there for those insulated from it,as I have been,and see where it goes.
The other thing is that what I do is very selfish in a way,in that I feed off everybody's energy and their progress and it makes it alot easier to get out of bed each day knowing you all are out there shaking the bushes and making things happen.
And books like Hucho's allow everyone access to good science,so they can navigate around pitfalls that have challenged so many in the quest for better efficiency and all its consequences.
In the movie,'World's Fastest Indian',Burt Munro mentioned a quote by Theodore Roosevelt,about the man in the arena and I feel like it applies to everyone at EcoModder.All of you are heros!
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Old 10-30-2010, 09:14 PM   #243 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RobertSmalls View Post
....Perhaps I can give you a hand or some pointers on assembling a MIMA controller, too. I think it would go well with a boat tail.
Robert,

I will definitely take you up on that offer!

Did you take pictures of your harness installation? I certainly could use more of those, besides the one's that Mike put on his website.

Jim.
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Old 10-31-2010, 03:28 AM   #244 (permalink)
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This has been the most thorough thread i've read on completing a boattail project. I think I'll model mine after yours since my crx has a very similar shape to the insight. I'm blown away that information like this is free to the public. Good people really do win sometimes.
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Old 10-31-2010, 09:32 AM   #245 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by crx driver View Post
....I'm blown away that information like this is free to the public. Good people really do win sometimes.
Hi CRX,

My belief is, that good Karma leads to more good Karma and it sounds like you're also a witness to this concept. The freedom with which others speak of their projects, leads me to believe many others on this site feel the same way.

Jim.
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Old 10-31-2010, 09:40 AM   #246 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3-Wheeler View Post
Robert,

I will definitely take you up on that offer!

Did you take pictures of your harness installation? I certainly could use more of those, besides the one's that Mike put on his website.

Jim.
No, and I simplified the harness installation, combining a few wires and omitting the fan controllers. I printed off the ECU and MCM connector diagrams from InsightPDFs.zip, along with this document: http://99mpg.com/Data/resources/down...ness9-----.pdf

The first time around, I missed the information hidden away in the "/oldinstall" section of Mike's site: MIMA Honda Insight Modified Integrated Motor Assist - Hardwired Harness

But if there's anything you'd like a picture of, I may be able to help, as my Insight is often in a state of disassembly.
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Old 10-31-2010, 07:25 PM   #247 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertSmalls View Post
....I printed off the ECU and MCM connector diagrams from InsightPDFs.zip....
Hi Robert,

Can you say where you found the InsightPDFs.zip.

I looked at IC and searched, and then at Mikes site and could not find it. I found a reference to the zip file at IC, but not much else.

Thanks, Jim.
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Old 10-31-2010, 07:44 PM   #248 (permalink)
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Ygpm.
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Old 10-31-2010, 09:00 PM   #249 (permalink)
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Ygpm.
I got it, and thanks.

Jim.
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Old 10-31-2010, 09:43 PM   #250 (permalink)
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Summary Table for Build

----- Design -----
Use the AeroHead Streamlining Template (Most important)
---make sure you understand and use this shape for the proper curvature
---come up with a way to make your panels to this curvature and not overly steep
---I used two master templates - a steeper one for the sides and a shallower one for the top

Make sure that you understand the wind and mechanical forces involved
---The 2 inch thick foam will stand up to at least 50 mph side winds as tested on 10-26-10 due to extreme weather conditions.
---Dynamic forces include heavily rutted roads and cause shock forces to both the tail and mounting system. The faster you drive, the higher the acceleration forces are to the wheels, tires, frame and tail extension over any encountered jolts in the road.

I provided widely spaced lighting to compensate for the extremely narrow width tail

I contacted my Insurance Company about my intention to build the tail, and ensured that they would endorse the modifications to the car in case of accident. Only the OEM portion of the car is covered, but the tail does not alter their commitment to insure.

------ Tools ------
(1) Fine toothed hacksaw blade (24 tooth/in)
(1) Half-round rasp file (invaluable for roughing both foam and glass
(5) Custom sized sanding blocks made from foam and various grit sand-paper (usually 40-60 grit)
---several of the blocks were shaped to match the Honda body curvature above the rear tires (concave & convex)
(1) Full size hand saw for making long cuts in foam
(1) Belt sander for making wood support piece above hatchback LED lights (at work)
(1) Band saw for cutting acrylic covers for lights (at work)
---tried cutting by hand, but cracked almost immediately
---Sabre-saw had trouble as well, and scratched untaped surface
---- note: tape the surface if you use this saw type
(1) Drill press for drilling and counter-sinking various holes in acrylic covers

------ Supplies ------
(1) 2x4 lumber - 8 ft long
---actually Cedar would be better, since it's about 70% as strong and quite a bit lighter
(1) 1x2 lumber - 4 ft long
---used for creating embedded attachment points inside the foam structure
(2) 2 inch thick, 4x8 ft Owens-Corning Foamular foam board
---it's amazing that I went through two full size sheets
(0.5) 1 inch thick, 4x8 ft Owens-Corning Foamular foam board
(1) gallon of Elmers Wood Glue
(1-1/2) gallons of Light-weight Spackling
(20) or so 1/4-20 bolts ranging from 1.5 to 4.25 inches long
(?) Various brass tubing, aluminum round stock, several springs, braided wire, brass hinges
---used as the fastening system for the small hatch
(10) yards of 6 ounce fiber glass cloth (est.)
(1) yard of 2 ounce fiber glass cloth
---used for covering any area with tight bends
(1) gallon of West System Epoxy Resin
(1) quart of West System Epoxy Hardener
(16) feet each of multicolored 18 guage wire for various tail lights
(16) feet of convoluted tubing
(16) LED lights - SuperBrightLED's
---a combination of narrow and wide angle lights for rearward lighting
(10) electrical pins from a GM dealer connector kit
---pins were too thick and wide, and had to modified with B&D rotary grinder
---final pin size was 0.025 thick x 0.090 wide
---thanks to Rock County Honda/GMC, Wisconsin for the free connectors
(5) full size tubes of Bondo Spotting Putty
---this barely scratches the surface upon getting the tail smooth
---it's estimated that another 10 - 15 tubes will be needed before multiple coats of primer are sprayed
---only the three visible sides will be smoothed to showroom quality, plus tail-end

----- Cost -----
List big ticket items here:
-$50 Foam
-$90 Epoxy Resin and Hardener
-$30 Fiber glass cloth
-$40 Spackling
$125 LED lights and sockets
-$80 Primer Paint - next year
$150? Automotive Paint - next year - typically about $30 per quart
$??? Labor (4 months - two weeks) (two more months to go - sanding/painting)

Note this table will be edited to add additional info if necessary.

Jim.


Last edited by 3-Wheeler; 10-31-2010 at 10:15 PM..
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