Hot-rodding the Toyota MGR

[freebeard]

e*clipse -- Thanks for asking. I'm just now getting to this thread. And decompressing.

Where to start? One case of apparent trucker road rage, and 3 small mammals served up for the crow's and raven's breakfast. The tracks were dry but the access road had inches of standing water. I sprayed the undercarriage with WD-40 beforehand andf I've washed it 4 times in the last five days and there is still lumps of salt falling out. Tomorrow I will get it up on ramps and get under there with a steam cleaner.

Can we talk about gasoline here? 32.5mpg overall, with a best of 37.3 with a lot of downhill stretches. I was able to locate ethanol-free premium in Elko NV and Redding, CA. 1755 miles in three days. If I could be running on kilowatts before I go through another 60 gallons, that would be about right—I normally drive about 2000 miles a year.



What is on-topic to this thread is that I've decided to name the '58 Beetle as eRATTick the Lexwagen. You'll know I've recovered when I resume posting for real.

[e*clipse]

Well, welcome back!

I know that route all toooo well. Trying finding Biodiesel along the way! LOL!

By the way, you prolly drove through Chico, right? If so you were super close to me and some of the best Beer in the world!

Let me know next time you're out this way and I'll invite you to a Beer @ Sierra Nevada. You can even charge an EV there.

E*clipse

Originally Posted by freebeard

e*clipse -- Thanks for asking. I'm just now getting to this thread. And decompressing.

I was able to locate ethanol-free premium in Elko NV and Redding, CA. 1755 miles in three days. If I could be running on kilowatts before I go through another 60 gallons, that would be about right—I normally drive about 2000 miles a year.

You'll know I've recovered when I resume posting for real.

[freebeard]

Alone, in the dark somewhere West of Elko, NV, I missed a turn. The milepost markings were headed my way, but before I got to the state line I found the lights of Sparks Nevada. There was a offer to turn to Reno but I figured (at that point) it was South of me, not North, so I made for the border. The next lights I saw was the fruit inspection station. I bought a map in Truckee and overnighted at the Donner Summit, and then picked up I-5 at Williams.

I've been known to drink a beer. I was thinking we might meet at an Electric Car race. Maybe the Medford dragstrip?

[e*clipse]

Wow - you really took the longway home. You do know there are more northern routes to get to Reno from Western Oregon/Washington? Of course, you are always welcome here if you choose a similar Redding > west route again.

Yes! Medford sounds fun! Perhaps we can use if for a test opportunity.

There's also great food, etc. in Ashland.

- E*clipse

[freebeard]

I was velocitized.

I was in Reno 2 years ago for the Solar eclipse (hey!) and the National Auto Museum. I hear kids these days have turn-by-turn navigation.



A better comparison would be the transaxle, but the only one I have is dirty and miles away, so here's a comparison with an OG 36hp case.

Estimating:

• Engine**********250lb
• transaxle********80lb
• starter**********10lb
• gas & tank******70lb
• ***************_____
• ***************410lb minus 100lb less weight than a conventional EVW.

[4x4EV]

think I found a test vehicle to play with this fall/winter

[freebeard]

That's awesome. Want to know why?

[freebeard]

As much as I hate replying to my own post, I'll bump this one instead of going offtopic in the controller thread.

I have a donor car and the MGR, what I'm waiting on now is for the van I'm selling to move out so I have space to work. That's supposed to happen on Tuesday (this week, apparently) and I'll be able to get the car up on jack stands.

Y'all are talking about pricing at quantitiy 1, and showing populated boards. I'm trying to be patient but at some point I have to ask—for budgeting purposes, ballpark figure, not holding you to anything, how much will a controller for a single 650v Lexus MGR set me back?

Also, how many pounds per kilowatt-hour for non-lead acid batteries? How many kilowatt-hours in the volume taken be say 10-20 gallons of gas?

Once I'm in the space and the lights are on, I'll start a build thread, to leave this one to focus on the MGR. Since this vehicle will need to fill a variety of functions, it will be an electric Baja Bug/Bonneville race car/Zombie evasion vehicle. The thing is, I think I have a credible plan that finds the sweet spot.

[thingstodo]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Also, how many pounds per kilowatt-hour for non-lead acid batteries? How many kilowatt-hours in the volume taken be say 10-20 gallons of gas?

To get you to 650 VDC, there are not many options that fit into that space.

You could
- build a Tesla-like pack with panasonic cells (18 mm dia, 65 mm long) into series and parallel sets, so you can trade off max current versus capacity and range. Buy or fab holders for the batteries, spot weld the batteries together. Batteries are available in the 1 - 3 A-h range in this form factor.
- use 192 of a 40 a-h CALB .. at 1.83 in x 4.54in x 7.1 in and 3.3 lbs each. That would be a 24.5 kw-h pack and weigh 633 lbs. 400 amps for 30 sec, 120 amps continuous.
- use some of CALB's newest and most expensive cells. CAM-10 a-h, less weight and more energy dense than the CA series, but more money if you can find someone to sell them to you. Bottom of this page EV Modules_CALB lithium battery
Meant for scooters, I would guess that 13 of these 48V packs strung together are larger than the space you have. 100 amps for 30 seconds, 30 amps continuous.
- build headway cells (38 mm dia, 120 mm long) into series sets, so you can trade off max current versus capacity and range. Buy or fab holders for the batteries, spot weld the batteries together. Batteries are available in 10 - 20 a-h each. I have no experience with these, but I hear bad things about them.

Maybe it would be a good idea to make use of Paul's proposed voltage boost on the input stage? Less batteries, less space, less weight?

What does the rest of the car weigh, and what sort of range are you looking for? You would be racing this car as well, right?

[freebeard]

The published weight is 1610 pounds. It is less the valances and drivetrain. Engine and transaxle weigh 400lb, so I calculate less than 1200 as it sits.

The question about the gas tank is because I'm also considering an install in the unmodified engine bay of a Type II.

With the Beetle, I'd like the primary battery pack to replace the rear seat, with a secondary pack in front replacing the gas tank sized for front/rear weight balance. And an option to plug-in an additional battery where the engine used to reside, or in a trailer, to extend the range. Minimum range would be a 3 mile track plus return road. There's always a wait in line between runs.

I'm assuming a DC-DC inversion, for instance a 1st/2nd gen Prius battery at 288 volts bumped to 650.

That would be a 24.5 kw-h pack and weigh 633 lbs. 400 amps for 30 sec, 120 amps continuous.

That would be ~200lb over the stock weight. That's acceptable. My Superbeetle weighs 2000 pounds.

But EV-Power | CALB (40Ah-400Ah) shows $55-60 per, or $11,520 for 192 each. Is that right?

Edit: used+Prius+battery+pack into Google returns pricing in the range $1760-2628, with one site offering "...from $850". So that's my default choice. Dimensions are 15 x 40 x 9 in. I can't measure the back seat width right now but it's 42" at the rear window. So I could stack two or three there.

I found this on the 3rd gen Prius:

The 2010 Prius has one nickel metal hydride main battery pack that weighs 110 pounds. The battery pack contains 168 individual 1.2 V cells wired in series with a nominal voltage of 201.6 V DC. The 2010 Prius PHV has three lithium-ion battery packs, one main and two additional packs (pack one and pack two) with a combined weight of 330 pounds. Each battery pack contains 96 individual 3.6 V cells wired in series with a nominal voltage of 345.6 V DC.

http://www.toyota.com/esq/vehicles/plug-in-hybrid/toyotas-first-production-lithium-ion-drive-battery.html

Apparently Toyota use only 2 of the 3 packs at any one time, but they charge in series.

Wikipedia says:

The cost of replacing the battery varies between US$2,200 and US$2,600 from a Toyota dealer, but low-use units from salvage yards are available for around US$500.[148] One study indicates it may be worthwhile to rebuild batteries using good blades from defective used batteries.

What's a headway cell? There is an access plate at the front of the center tunnel that's about 1 1/2x3". If I could slide 6ft long sticks in there in pairs it might hold six.That would be 92 cells right below center of gravity. That might present cooling problems though.