How to build a muscle car for better fuel economy?

[Hersbird]

Again, I understand states can do it, but read that more carefully. Breaking down part B because the penalties of part A only apply to selling such things, "principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design." So a slight change seems a stretch of the bypass, defeat, break language. Then we still haven't gotten to if the federal government even would have this authority if challenged in a court. Most would probably just pay the $2500 fine but maybe that's why they don't enforce it on individuals. They have a tough case to prove when a jury is going to be sympathetic to the little guy against the heavy hand of tyranny when modifying cars is kind of a great American tradition.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

Again, I understand states can do it, but read that more carefully. Breaking down part B because the penalties of part A only apply to selling such things, "principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design." So a slight change seems a stretch of the bypass, defeat, break language. Then we still haven't gotten to if the federal government even would have this authority if challenged in a court. Most would probably just pay the $2500 fine but maybe that's why they don't enforce it on individuals. They have a tough case to prove when a jury is going to be sympathetic to the little guy against the heavy hand of tyranny when modifying cars is kind of a great American tradition.

Section A: clearly covers after sale: "for any person knowingly to remove or render inoperative any such device or element of design after such sale and delivery"

Section A covers removing or disabling. IE cutting out your catalytic convertor or drilling it out to remove the internals.

Section B covers replacement parts. IE - replacing your exhaust with an competition only replacement.


The EPA doesn't have the staff to chase after individuals or mess around with 5 digits fines. CAA settlements are here: https://cfpub.epa.gov/enforcement/ca...tePage=12&ID=1

[Hersbird]

OK. But still I get the feeling that after never enforcing it on an individual doing their own car, they might start with a warning or 2 or 10,000. There is a such thing called Desuetude where a law that is never enforced stops being a law at all. It's like at work where they let everybody do something forever and then all of the sudden try and fire one guy for breaking the rule. It won't stand.

[Phoenix'97]

Originally Posted by JSH

How will your shop measure emissions from your car and verify that it meets EPA specifications? How do you know the changes you make are "eco-friendly"?

The engine builder I plan to give this project to also performs emissions compliance services. He specializes in building race engines for his spring/summer clientele who race at the nearby drag strip but he can build a beefed up race/street engine or whatever your specifications are and tune the thing for emissions compliance. From what I know, as long as you remain in compliance with emissions standards set for your vehicle, you should be fine! I plan on using Iso-Butanol with my car, but I will take the liberty to contact the DMV and see what I can do, whether I need legislative approval to use this unlisted Bio-Fuel and what else I may need to do to be legal in the eyes of New York State and if not by the Federal government. I am also willing to pay for emissions certification by the state, if that is a requirement.

How do I know that the changes I make will be "eco-friendly"?

1.) Bio-Butanol burns cleaner than gasoline and when using emissions devices, the only major greenhouse gas is carbon dioxide.

2.) I would like to make use of plug-in hybrid technology and the BAS hybrid system on my LT1 engine. Depending upon how I ultimately decide to use this technology, using stop/start with stop-and-go electric assist or using electric assist with the BAS to help me get my car back in motion without using much throttle to propel the car, will help mitigate fuel consumption and ultimately help further drive down my emissions.

How much more eco-friendly can I get without turning my car into a pure electric car?

[BLSTIC]

Originally Posted by Phoenix'97

How much more eco-friendly can I get without turning my car into a pure electric car?

The 2.3 Ecoboost Mustang has a modern-emissions engine that is equal or superior to your 90's chev in every objective way. GM Probably has something similar somewhere if the idea of installing a four-letter-word engine doesn't excite you.

So there's that option, use a modern downsized performance engine in your early car that probably weighs less, especially with the engine swap. Ecoboost mustangs have run 11's down the 1/4 mile so they are definitely enough muscle, and the lighter engine would have to help handling.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Phoenix'97

The engine builder I plan to give this project to also performs emissions compliance services. He specializes in building race engines for his spring/summer clientele who race at the nearby drag strip but he can build a beefed up race/street engine or whatever your specifications are and tune the thing for emissions compliance. From what I know, as long as you remain in compliance with emissions standards set for your vehicle, you should be fine! I plan on using Iso-Butanol with my car, but I will take the liberty to contact the DMV and see what I can do, whether I need legislative approval to use this unlisted Bio-Fuel and what else I may need to do to be legal in the eyes of New York State and if not by the Federal government. I am also willing to pay for emissions certification by the state, if that is a requirement.

How do I know that the changes I make will be "eco-friendly"?

1.) Bio-Butanol burns cleaner than gasoline and when using emissions devices, the only major greenhouse gas is carbon dioxide.

2.) I would like to make use of plug-in hybrid technology and the BAS hybrid system on my LT1 engine. Depending upon how I ultimately decide to use this technology, using stop/start with stop-and-go electric assist or using electric assist with the BAS to help me get my car back in motion without using much throttle to propel the car, will help mitigate fuel consumption and ultimately help further drive down my emissions.

How much more eco-friendly can I get without turning my car into a pure electric car?

How could you improve emissions (and fuel economy) on your car? Do a true resto-mod and drop a current emission compliant engine into your car. Any competent tuner shop can do that. The rest is just pie-in-the-sky pipe dreams.

EDIT: I see BLSTIC beat me to it. Every engine in the current Camaro outperforms the engine in your Firebird, returns better fuel economy, and has much lower emissions. I would look at the 2.0 Turbo personally which is just as quick as your V8 and gets almost 40% better fuel economy. Even the 455 hp 6.2L V8 in the current Camaro SS gets better fuel economy than your car.

[BLSTIC]

40%? That's a huge difference. As in, more than the gain typically seen when manufacturers go hybrid.

I'd almost consider doing a swap like that in my next project... If the idea of 260rwhp from a naturally aspirated 6-cylinder didn't excite me so much

[JSH]

Originally Posted by BLSTIC

40%? That's a huge difference. As in, more than the gain typically seen when manufacturers go hybrid.

I'd almost consider doing a swap like that in my next project... If the idea of 260rwhp from a naturally aspirated 6-cylinder didn't excite me so much

The OP's car is 20 years old and a lot has changed in that time.

The 2018 Camaro's ratings are:

25 mpg - 2.0L I4 Turbo
23 mpg - 3.6L V6
20 mpg - 6.2L V8

The OP's car is rated at 18 mpg

I've had the V6 Camaro multiple times as a rental car and usually average about 28 to 30 mpg with a mix of back roads and highway. Fun car to drive for a week but I wouldn't want to own one.

[freebeard]

The engine builder I plan to give this project to also performs emissions compliance services. He specializes in building race engines for his spring/summer clientele who race at the nearby drag strip but he can build a beefed up race/street engine or whatever your specifications are and tune the thing for emissions compliance.

Have you spoken to him about isotropic superfinishing and/or cryogenic tempering?

Thinking about muscle cars, today, I remembered how when the kids all left my parents traded their Rambler wagon for a 1967 Chevelle SS396 convertible. It was this color:


St. Louis Car Museum & Sales - 1967 Chevrolet Chevelle SS396 Convertible

Today that's a $90,000 car.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by henshao

I am glad to see that only one or two guys actually had the gall to say an LT1 Firebird isn't a muscle car. Very helpful fellas

But it's not an "orthodox" muscle-car. Plus, the Camaro/Firebird, the Mustang and the Challenger/Barracuda have their own pony-car class.