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Old 04-20-2014, 08:48 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
No, I expected to get back the money I INVESTED in the stock market, plus more, but that didn't happen.
The stock market is like poker the the money on the table isn't yours until you cash in your chips. My 401k lost 50% of is value a few years back but I am sill better off than if I had "invested a in car or cars"

The question is are you willing to trade you life for what you are buying. Because for most of us that is what it comes down to. We trade time for money. So when you go out to by something figure out in hour and days of your life your giving up for it. Don't forget the interest that you are charged, the pound of flesh the government extracts and lets not forget the commute time.


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Many investments are investments even though you don't get "more" back.
No, that's a loss.

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Old 04-20-2014, 09:24 AM   #22 (permalink)
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When putting money into something, it's investing. I've grown up my entire life being taught this. One has X amount of money, and money going out is usually an investment, if there is any return or tangible gain(Google and I share this view: https://www.google.com/#q=define+investment). I don't consider food an investment, because I need it- it is not something extra, or above the bare minimum.

If I rent a house, it is just money being spent. If I am buying a house, it is an investment. If I don't have a car, and I buy one, it is an investment. If I have a commuter car, and buy a sports car, I wouldn't call it an investment naturally, but it's an asset. It may not be an appreciating investment, but putting money going somewhere and getting something back is investing, in my opinion (and most). For me, I had a (better not say sports car) front engine rear wheel drive performance oriented vehicle, and bought an Insight to preserve miles. When the entire cost for every factor (oil, gas, tires, insurance, loan, interest) is put into the Mustang, it's about $1 per mile. Buying a 3k car that turns out to be $.10/mile, and actually became free after the deer accident, it was FREE 5k miles. That time and energy turned out to be free 5k of miles, which could be thought of as $5k off the Mustang.

Investments have risk. I think there is a VERY slim chance a car will appreciate, but when one makes 13k per year, saving up to buy a running car for $500 to expand ones job range is an investment, or moving to a place with $250 cheaper rent, is a good investment. Being a multimillionaire, and purchasing a Bugatti Veyron- I am not arguing if it is a WISE investment, I am making the point that turning money into something tangible is an investment (regardless of turning a gain or loss, or being smart or not).
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Old 04-20-2014, 10:21 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I understand your point. I just use a less encompassing description of investment.
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Old 04-20-2014, 02:20 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nemo View Post
TMy 401k lost 50% of is value a few years back but I am sill better off than if I had "invested a in car or cars"
Yeah, mine lost close to 50% in 2008-09, but since March of '09 has gained 152%. The market goes down, then it goes up, then down again...

As for whether someone lost money on a particular investment, that's inherent in the risk/reward thing. You can invest your money in T-bills: very little risk, but only a small profit. At the other extreme, you could invest in speculative startups, where the odds are against success, but you make a lot when a startup does succecd.

The point, though, is that you make an investment with the idea that you will make a profit. Excepting e.g. taxi or car rental businesses and the like, that's not why people buy cars.
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Old 04-20-2014, 05:24 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I agree that the idea of buying a car now in the idea it will appreciate faster than inflation is not very good, but ifI didn't have my Mustang, I couldn't have moved up from hourly to salary and doubled my income, do my side work, or work to be fully employed in another field.
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Old 04-20-2014, 06:29 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I believe "investing" is the "...input of value today with the expectation of accumulating increased value tomorrow..." or similar wording.
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Old 04-20-2014, 06:33 PM   #27 (permalink)
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One can also invest time...
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Old 04-20-2014, 07:48 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Yeah, I too agree with the you cant call your car a positive investment. Its going to be a loss all around. A better car than you had is less of a loss than you had before.

Fuel, taxes, registration, inspections, SMOG Testing, insurance plus maintenance. You got parts plus labor. You can call your tools an investment, but unless you sell the car for more than you paid it or money comes out the tail pipe its not going to work that way.
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:26 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Best investments for me.

Ammunition, bought for 8 cents a round, sold for 24 cents a round X a few thousand rounds, 3 years later.

House, built for $160k, sold for $335k, no tax on the gain, 16 months labor.

Cars, bought for 25% of retail value. Fixed for another 25%, driven tens of thousands of miles, sold for a profit, sometimes enough to cover all operational costs.

Motorcycles, in some cases sold for more than the total cost of operation including gas insurance, taxes and all other costs.

In todays economy with so few investment opportunities, it's best to "invest" in debt elimination.

Next best "investment" is home improvements but only those that offer useful purpose and a real return on your cash and labor. I made $100 an hour tax free building two houses.

I paid $10k for my Fiesta, or you could consider I traded 100 hours of my labor which was tax free building my first house, less than one months work.

A friend, since passed once chided me for having money in 5% insured CDs when he was making bunches in the stock market. That was 2008. He lost over $300k, I made 12K a year until the CDs matured and they would not renew them.

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Mech
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:54 PM   #30 (permalink)
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It may be an investment in the comfort and time saved to commute or to haul stuff around.

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