Go Back   EcoModder Forum > AltModding > Alternative Transportation
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-13-2023, 08:26 PM   #1 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: The Pas, Manitoba
Posts: 319
Thanks: 427
Thanked 145 Times in 112 Posts
Human Powered Snow Vehicle?

Hey guys, I live through frigid winters with lots of snow. Most people around me ride snowmobiles for fun, but Ive never seen a fully reliable/efficient one. It can drop down to -45 Celsius here and theres lots of snow and ice.

I want to go outside more in the winter, and I like the concept of a snow vehicle. I want to design a custom human-powered vehicle designed to explore decently-packed snow in cold conditions. Id prefer it to be capable of decent speed relative to a bicycle.

Anyways, I wondered if anybody has any ideas to share? Lemme know!


-

Currently, Im imagining a recumbent trike chassis with two skis upfront, and a studded fat bike tire on the rear. An enclosed cabin would be very cool but likely impractical.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 11-13-2023, 08:33 PM   #2 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: The Pas, Manitoba
Posts: 319
Thanks: 427
Thanked 145 Times in 112 Posts






Heres some relevant images. Im thinking a tracked vehicle will have far better floatation and traction in any case. I have yet to see an efficient tracked vehicle that *doesnt* rob large amounts of energy. On those lines, it may be better to use a fat bike wheel/tire. Studs are an option, and possible a paddle tire.

Im thinking I will be split between good speed on hard pack snow and good floatation in soft snow. I dont think I can achieve both.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	C2E6A8AC-9344-4C83-952B-8BFEF1F8E7DB.jpg
Views:	67
Size:	54.6 KB
ID:	34321   Click image for larger version

Name:	C9AD0113-C9A6-4C2C-B3DB-D8FACE1CFAE6.jpg
Views:	71
Size:	52.6 KB
ID:	34322   Click image for larger version

Name:	7D28167F-87D8-43BC-A648-D2BBBD8F1FB0.jpg
Views:	68
Size:	50.7 KB
ID:	34323  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2023, 08:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
High Altitude Hybrid
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Gunnison, CO
Posts: 1,924

Avalon - '13 Toyota Avalon HV
90 day: 40.45 mpg (US)

Prius - '06 Toyota Prius
Thanks: 1,022
Thanked 529 Times in 426 Posts
Skis,
Bike with fat tires,
Dog [Human] sled.

The lighter the better for snow flotation.

Depends on what kind of snow you'll be traveling (packed, untouched powder, etc.)
__________________
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Isaac Zachary For This Useful Post:
JacobLeSann (11-14-2023)
Old 11-13-2023, 09:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,302

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 24.19 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.68 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,151
Thanked 4,360 Times in 3,337 Posts
I'd be looking at something like this;



https://envodrive.com/products/envo-flex-snowbike
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
JacobLeSann (11-14-2023)
Old 11-14-2023, 01:24 AM   #5 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: The Pas, Manitoba
Posts: 319
Thanks: 427
Thanked 145 Times in 112 Posts
Isaac, good points. We’re on the same page. I think a trike may be heavier but will have better floatation than bike.

redpoint5, I have been watching videos on that bike, but I fear that a track system of that type will have so much mechanical resistance that it will be impossible to go fast. That’s likely why it’s an e-bike. But it’s very cool looking!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2023, 01:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,302

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 24.19 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.68 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,151
Thanked 4,360 Times in 3,337 Posts
A trike has to flatten 3 tracks, but a bike only flattens 1. Bike is the way to go for efficiency always.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
JacobLeSann (11-14-2023)
Old 11-14-2023, 05:15 AM   #7 (permalink)
High Altitude Hybrid
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Gunnison, CO
Posts: 1,924

Avalon - '13 Toyota Avalon HV
90 day: 40.45 mpg (US)

Prius - '06 Toyota Prius
Thanks: 1,022
Thanked 529 Times in 426 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobLeSann View Post
Isaac, good points. Were on the same page. I think a trike may be heavier but will have better floatation than bike.
Surface area. The more the surface area the more it will float as long as weight doesn't increase proportionally with the increase of surface area.

Like Red said, it's best to have all that surface area as linear as possible. That way what snow that does get compacted is as little snow as possible.

So keeping everything in line is one step, two tires or ski then track. Keep them in line is best.

Another way of increasing surface area and compacting as little snow as possible is to go long instead of wide. You do need some width, but long and skinny is better than short and fat. That goes for skis and it also goes for tracks. Of course there is a practical limit, but generally longer is better than wider.

You can increase the surface contact of a tire lenthwise by making the diameter bigger. Again, there are limits to where it starts becoming impractical.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Isaac Zachary For This Useful Post:
JacobLeSann (11-14-2023)
Old 11-14-2023, 01:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
High Altitude Hybrid
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Gunnison, CO
Posts: 1,924

Avalon - '13 Toyota Avalon HV
90 day: 40.45 mpg (US)

Prius - '06 Toyota Prius
Thanks: 1,022
Thanked 529 Times in 426 Posts
I wonder if an in-line ski-track-ski configuration would be best, with both skis for steering.

It seems like the longer and skinnier the setup the more you'd need things to be segmented (more skis and/or tracks) for both steering and suspension. Basically it would be immitating a snake in a way. I'm not sure where the practical limit ends, but like I said, a ski-track-ski might be feasible.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Isaac Zachary For This Useful Post:
JacobLeSann (11-14-2023)
Old 11-14-2023, 01:57 PM   #9 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,302

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 24.19 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.68 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,151
Thanked 4,360 Times in 3,337 Posts
The modular concept of the Envo appeals to me. In the summer you throw wheels on it, and it's a pedal-assist e-bike. They also have a trike kit.

Haven't researched the products, so I have no idea if it's a good value or not. $5k for a pedal assist snow bike seems like a lot.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
JacobLeSann (11-14-2023)
Old 11-14-2023, 08:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: The Pas, Manitoba
Posts: 319
Thanks: 427
Thanked 145 Times in 112 Posts
$5000 is too much. I think the envo is very nice though. Not sure how well it would last in the weather here.

If you look up “K-trek track kit” you’ll see a well-designed bicycle track drive. I haven’t seen any reviews fully praising it. All of them say it has issues with reliability, floatation, weight, and lack of speed. Most reviews recommend a fat bike wheel as an alternative.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com