Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-08-2021, 06:19 PM   #231 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 12,864
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,683 Times in 1,501 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary View Post
same emissions problems found in diesel engines
An increase to NOx emissions is still often pointed out as easier to mitigate on a gasser fitted with direct injection than on a Diesel, yet the PM is a real PITA for both. OTOH a gaseous fuel injected at the vapour phase, such as natural gas, won't be so troublesome regarding PM.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-08-2021, 07:28 PM   #232 (permalink)
High Altitude Hybrid
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Gunnison, CO
Posts: 2,075

Avalon - '13 Toyota Avalon HV
90 day: 40.45 mpg (US)

Prius - '06 Toyota Prius
Thanks: 1,128
Thanked 584 Times in 463 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
An increase to NOx emissions is still often pointed out as easier to mitigate on a gasser fitted with direct injection than on a Diesel, yet the PM is a real PITA for both. OTOH a gaseous fuel injected at the vapour phase, such as natural gas, won't be so troublesome regarding PM.
That's because the gasser can be run at a stoichiometric AFR and a still very homogenous charge. Yet direct injection with spark ignition lends itself to a lean burning engine with a stratified charge. But it seems most, if not all OEMs are going with the former and not the later in their direct injection engine designs.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2021, 01:19 PM   #233 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 3,599

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)
Thanks: 325
Thanked 2,146 Times in 1,453 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
An increase to NOx emissions is still often pointed out as easier to mitigate on a gasser fitted with direct injection than on a Diesel, yet the PM is a real PITA for both. OTOH a gaseous fuel injected at the vapour phase, such as natural gas, won't be so troublesome regarding PM.
PM has the same solution for gas and diesel - particulate filters. Natural Gas has the benefit of not requiring a particulate filter but the downside of needing super expensive fuel tanks that cost way more than a PM filter.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2021, 08:02 PM   #234 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 12,864
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,683 Times in 1,501 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
PM has the same solution for gas and diesel - particulate filters.
Which could be avoided on gassers had direct injection not been so increasingly common on them.


Quote:
Natural Gas has the benefit of not requiring a particulate filter but the downside of needing super expensive fuel tanks that cost way more than a PM filter.
Sure for an OEM it's easier to fit a particulate filter than working around a car to make it dedicated-CNG, and even some newer CNG-capable models available in Europe nowadays might retain a particulate filter as they retain the ability to run on gasoline. But the cost of CNG tanks has not been so much of an issue rendering conversions unsuitable in third-world countries.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2021, 12:36 AM   #235 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 3,599

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)
Thanks: 325
Thanked 2,146 Times in 1,453 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Which could be avoided on gassers had direct injection not been so increasingly common on them.
Direct injection is required for emissions, performance and fuel economy. You get much better control injecting directly into the cylinder then the intake manifold. If direct injection wasn't a benefit OEMs wouldn't spend the extra money to fit it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Sure for an OEM it's easier to fit a particulate filter than working around a car to make it dedicated-CNG, and even some newer CNG-capable models available in Europe nowadays might retain a particulate filter as they retain the ability to run on gasoline. But the cost of CNG tanks has not been so much of an issue rendering conversions unsuitable in third-world countries.
I'm specifically talking about OEM solutions where companies have to follow the law or face huge fines.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2021, 06:13 PM   #236 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 12,864
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,683 Times in 1,501 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Direct injection is required for emissions, performance and fuel economy.
Yet sometimes an "outdated" port-injection engine, even though not likely to outperform a counterpart fitted with direct injection, may actually result in a higher fuel economy and lower NOx emissions. Performance-wise, McLaren and Koenigsegg have been doing a great job with port-injection while most of the competition switched to direct injection.


Quote:
You get much better control injecting directly into the cylinder then the intake manifold.
Direct injection has its advantages, yet port-injection remains cost-effective for some applications.


Quote:
If direct injection wasn't a benefit OEMs wouldn't spend the extra money to fit it.
Had either that Freevalve system or something analogue been widespread, it would be the end of direct injection on gassers. And even for flexfuels, there are easily-implemented cold starting aids.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2023, 02:13 PM   #237 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,265

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 273
Thanked 3,568 Times in 2,832 Posts
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Continental_United_States_Hurricane_Strikes_1950–2021.png
Views:	28
Size:	377.3 KB
ID:	34157  
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2023, 03:38 PM   #238 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 28,497
Thanks: 8,060
Thanked 8,860 Times in 7,314 Posts
Excluded 2023 so they don't have to include Californica?

__________________
.
.
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

____________________
.
.
Three conspiracy theorists walk into a bar --You can't say that is a coincidence.
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Tags
hurricane, vitriolic tesla hate





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com