Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-08-2021, 06:19 PM   #231 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 10,407
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,259 Times in 1,117 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary View Post
same emissions problems found in diesel engines
An increase to NOx emissions is still often pointed out as easier to mitigate on a gasser fitted with direct injection than on a Diesel, yet the PM is a real PITA for both. OTOH a gaseous fuel injected at the vapour phase, such as natural gas, won't be so troublesome regarding PM.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-08-2021, 07:28 PM   #232 (permalink)
High Altitude Hybrid
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Gunnison, CO
Posts: 892

Avalon - '13 Toyota Avalon HV
90 day: 40.45 mpg (US)

Prius - '06 Toyota Prius
Thanks: 479
Thanked 263 Times in 197 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
An increase to NOx emissions is still often pointed out as easier to mitigate on a gasser fitted with direct injection than on a Diesel, yet the PM is a real PITA for both. OTOH a gaseous fuel injected at the vapour phase, such as natural gas, won't be so troublesome regarding PM.
That's because the gasser can be run at a stoichiometric AFR and a still very homogenous charge. Yet direct injection with spark ignition lends itself to a lean burning engine with a stratified charge. But it seems most, if not all OEMs are going with the former and not the later in their direct injection engine designs.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2021, 01:19 PM   #233 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,441

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 180
Thanked 1,319 Times in 914 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
An increase to NOx emissions is still often pointed out as easier to mitigate on a gasser fitted with direct injection than on a Diesel, yet the PM is a real PITA for both. OTOH a gaseous fuel injected at the vapour phase, such as natural gas, won't be so troublesome regarding PM.
PM has the same solution for gas and diesel - particulate filters. Natural Gas has the benefit of not requiring a particulate filter but the downside of needing super expensive fuel tanks that cost way more than a PM filter.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2021, 08:02 PM   #234 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 10,407
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,259 Times in 1,117 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
PM has the same solution for gas and diesel - particulate filters.
Which could be avoided on gassers had direct injection not been so increasingly common on them.


Quote:
Natural Gas has the benefit of not requiring a particulate filter but the downside of needing super expensive fuel tanks that cost way more than a PM filter.
Sure for an OEM it's easier to fit a particulate filter than working around a car to make it dedicated-CNG, and even some newer CNG-capable models available in Europe nowadays might retain a particulate filter as they retain the ability to run on gasoline. But the cost of CNG tanks has not been so much of an issue rendering conversions unsuitable in third-world countries.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2021, 12:36 AM   #235 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,441

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 180
Thanked 1,319 Times in 914 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Which could be avoided on gassers had direct injection not been so increasingly common on them.
Direct injection is required for emissions, performance and fuel economy. You get much better control injecting directly into the cylinder then the intake manifold. If direct injection wasn't a benefit OEMs wouldn't spend the extra money to fit it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Sure for an OEM it's easier to fit a particulate filter than working around a car to make it dedicated-CNG, and even some newer CNG-capable models available in Europe nowadays might retain a particulate filter as they retain the ability to run on gasoline. But the cost of CNG tanks has not been so much of an issue rendering conversions unsuitable in third-world countries.
I'm specifically talking about OEM solutions where companies have to follow the law or face huge fines.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2021, 06:13 PM   #236 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 10,407
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,259 Times in 1,117 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Direct injection is required for emissions, performance and fuel economy.
Yet sometimes an "outdated" port-injection engine, even though not likely to outperform a counterpart fitted with direct injection, may actually result in a higher fuel economy and lower NOx emissions. Performance-wise, McLaren and Koenigsegg have been doing a great job with port-injection while most of the competition switched to direct injection.


Quote:
You get much better control injecting directly into the cylinder then the intake manifold.
Direct injection has its advantages, yet port-injection remains cost-effective for some applications.


Quote:
If direct injection wasn't a benefit OEMs wouldn't spend the extra money to fit it.
Had either that Freevalve system or something analogue been widespread, it would be the end of direct injection on gassers. And even for flexfuels, there are easily-implemented cold starting aids.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Tags
hurricane, vitriolic tesla hate

Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com