Hybrids for emergency power

[dcb]

Bob, is there any guesstimate on additional costs in cogen? i.e. nat gas to electricity/heat, extra hours on the prius engine, etc?

How hard is it to get a prius to run off a nat gas hose (I want to teach my little generator how to do that).

[Bill in Houston]

Any idea what this works out to on a cost per kwh basis? Just wondering if your practical expereience says that a "smart grid" is actually a good way to do things, or not.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by Bill in Houston

... a "smart grid" is actually a good way to do things, or not.

Lets do look at the numbers before naming it "smart grid" please

[bwilson4web]

Hi,

I've been running errands today and just had a chance to get back:

Originally Posted by jamesqf

A few thoughts, for what they're worth.

1) I didn't see any mention of disconnecting the house from the grid lines before hooking up the Prius. You do know that the current could be a hazard to repair crews?

2) Why not get a solar water heater instead of doing all the work to hook up the Prius' exhaust &c? Gives you free hot water 365 days a year.

3) Do you really need to run a plasma TV? A few good books and a couple of LED headlamps use a lot less energy.

1) I run extension cords from the Prius into the house and to the various loads. Until I have enough for whole house power, I'm not going to install a cut-over switch.

2) I've looked at solar hot water systems and rather than do a piece-meal solution, I'm planning a whole house solution. Meanwhile, the exhaust heat is 'low hanging fruit' and easy enough to implement.

3) We only had one TV, the plasma unit, that had a DVT receiver. The bedroom 19" unit is analog and only works when the cable system is operational which it wasn't during the outage. We did use an FM radio as backup to the TV but valley radio was only useful when they chose to simulcast with a TV station.

During a wide-area, power outage, we needed accurate, current information including the curfew, location of gas, food, and supplies, changes to traffic rules, and how to avoid impact areas. I love a good book but how do we get current disaster information?

Originally Posted by dcb

Bob, is there any guesstimate on additional costs in cogen? i.e. nat gas to electricity/heat, extra hours on the prius engine, etc?

How hard is it to get a prius to run off a nat gas hose (I want to teach my little generator how to do that).

I can't give the cost until I freeze the design but every time we go through a power outage, I learn valuable lessons. But here are my current thoughts:

• Exhaust heat - route through a 'gutted', gas fired, hot water heater. Ebay suggests prices in the $300-500 range.
• electrical power - I'm expecting to design a power-switch for two legs of MG2 and leaving the current sensor by-passed. With two legs removed, I can provide AC power limited only by how much I wish to draw from the traction battery and MG1 generator. Pulse-width modulation into a filter network should provide exceptionally clean power. The isolation transformer will be $250-350 and the rest of the bits should be about the same, call it $700.
• engine compartment heat - I'm thinking rigging up the hood so it can hinge at the front and rise up at the windshield. Then a wedge-shaped insert can form an air-tight seal and a thermostat controlled fan force warm air into an insulated, flexible duct. It will also include a carbon monoxide and smoke detector to shut it down if anything 'bad' is detected. I figure hardware ~$50 and a foam-and-glass wedge another $50 and insulated duct $200. Add some electronics and sensor, we're looking at $300-400.

As for the fuel cost, I downloaded a spreadsheet of fuel costs. It looks like for one million BTUs:

• $10.54 - natural gas
• $23.73 - kerosene (untaxed, gasoline substitute)

Now I will lose some heat compared to a more efficient, heat-only system. However, it will leave the car fully warmed up each morning so my MPG costs should go down, significantly. Best of all, loss of electrical power will no long be an issue.

Now I have found some conversion systems but the EPA has been a 'horse's ass' about conversion systems. They insist that the vehicle be re-certified with the conversion system and that is a $250-500,000 expense. However, there are . . . alternative sources. So far, I've seen:

• $500 - carburetor systems
• $2,000 - fuel injector systems

Bob Wilson

[dcb]

wow, ok maybe I'm still missing something, but why would you need to re-certify if the thing only runs on nat-gas when stationary?

and I may still be missing something, but would it not be insanely simpler to convert a used $500 stationary gas generator to nat-gas? Maybe even retro fit auto start on power outage?

You can still pickle the carburetor off the generator and keep it handy just in case.

[retepsnikrep]

This has also been discussed at insightcentral in relation to the G1 Insight as well. You can force regen at tickover with an IMA control mod so the car can sit ticking over. You can get about 10A at 175V dc from the system in this config via connections to the IMA battery. Not that easy and you need something that can take your HV dc supply and convert it to mains ac voltage.

You can take power via the dc-dc converter from the 12v side but that would be limited to perhaps 500w max.

[Ryland]

I still think that tapping in to the heater core lines, installing a small ball valve and two quick connect fittings to connect to your water heater would be better then changing the hood around to capture heat, as it would put the heat where you want it via water lines and you would be using the water pump that is already on the engine so you wouldn't be adding more then about two pounds of weight for the quick connect fittings and a ball valve, it would be a fitting before and after the valve in the same line going to the heater core, very simple way to pull heat off the engine, it would also allow you to reverse the setup for warming the car up quickly in the morning by adding an electric pump inline and pulling hot water from the house and warming up the gas engine with it, getting rid of cold starts.

[dcb]

And a stationary generator provides power even when the prius isn't there...

This is one strange agenda.

[Bill in Houston]

Originally Posted by dcb

and I may still be missing something, but would it not be insanely simpler to convert a used $500 stationary gas generator to nat-gas? Maybe even retro fit auto start on power outage?

Things here are never about "simpler" or "easier", are they? I had the same thought though, except it was a small diesel generator in my thought. Anyway, great project, Bob.

[orange4boy]

Bob,

You need to write a book called "1001 things you can do with a Prius" You are never out of ideas.

I have used our Prius as a generator many times now. Most famously to keep the local gourmet chocolate cafe open on Easter. Thanks to Bob for the idea.

I like your thinking. You don't just think outside the box, you have since broken it down and recycled it.