I have an idea about flash tuning

[American Viking]

Originally Posted by sarguy01

that stinks. I don't think Hondata has much of a market with Insights. do they sell anything that will work?

I doubt Hondata will have anything for an Insight. Mostly because they can only tune a processor that they can plug into and monitor.
I'd even bet the Insight has a unique processor in the ECM.
You might get them to work up the routines if you could send them an ecm or 'loan' them a complete car.

That was how I got the Flash tuner on three of my cars. Once they worked out the addressing, the style of the code and some of the design protocols, I could tune just about anyway I wanted.

I had an XCal from SCT for my GT.
I shipped them my PCM, because they had not worked with my calibration code.
Even after they send me a "custom" tune for my calibration, I took the XCal to a local dyno and "found" more torque, more peak hp and another 4.5mpg at highway speed

[sarguy01]

Originally Posted by American Viking

I doubt Hondata will have anything for an Insight. Mostly because they can only tune a processor that they can plug into and monitor.
I'd even bet the Insight has a unique processor in the ECM.
You might get them to work up the routines if you could send them an ecm or 'loan' them a complete car.

That was how I got the Flash tuner on three of my cars. Once they worked out the addressing, the style of the code and some of the design protocols, I could tune just about anyway I wanted.

I had an XCal from SCT for my GT.
I shipped them my PCM, because they had not worked with my calibration code.
Even after they send me a "custom" tune for my calibration, I took the XCal to a local dyno and "found" more torque, more peak hp and another 4.5mpg at highway speed

It makes sense the local dyno was able to find more power. SCT didn't have your specific car to tune, they were only doing some basic modifications.

What are your before and after numbers for the highway mpg increase?

How much do you have into the SCT and tuning? I am curious.

[backpacker3]

I'll clarify my other post my point was that engines can use the same tune if there is room for adjustment in the tune somewhat like the OEM tune. That's how some existing flash tuners work, granted I know that some have custom tunes made before you get the tuning device but there are flash tuners that use what you were calling "canned tunes". Even though you don't get the maximum effect out of those devices there are some gains.

[sarguy01]

Originally Posted by backpacker3

I'll clarify my other post my point was that engines can use the same tune if there is room for adjustment in the tune somewhat like the OEM tune. That's how some existing flash tuners work, granted I know that some have custom tunes made before you get the tuning device but there are flash tuners that use what you were calling "canned tunes". Even though you don't get the maximum effect out of those devices there are some gains.

Yes, in most cases, there should be some gains. But, I won't believe the person selling me a $300-500 tuner. They all makes claims about mpg increases, but without some real data, I won't be buying one. I know some people from other forums that made claims of mileage increases, but with no real testing. They wanted to believe the product worked and started checking their gas mileage, with no real before numbers or controlled testing conditions.

But, as we've said, the best gains are going to come from a custom tune; one for your specific car.

For $500, I can add some proven mods like a Scan Gauge, pizza pans, grill block, etc. Those mods have been shown to work, more than once, on this website and still have $200+ left over. The Scan Gauge can move from car to car and the pizza pans/grill block can be very inexpensive. The $300-500 tuner will be good for one car at a time (Most are good for one VIN number at a time). Some can only be used on one kind of car.

Again, if you want to get a tuner, go for it. But as I've said, don't expect a quick turn around on your investment.

[American Viking]

Originally Posted by backpacker3

I'll clarify my other post my point was that engines can use the same tune if there is room for adjustment in the tune somewhat like the OEM tune. That's how some existing flash tuners work, granted I know that some have custom tunes made before you get the tuning device but there are flash tuners that use what you were calling "canned tunes". Even though you don't get the maximum effect out of those devices there are some gains.

Yes, your correct in most cases a 'canned' tune uploaded from a flash tuner is better than the OEM tune. I have personally had 'canned' tunes (both piggyback chips and flash tunes) that did not improve the performance or the economy of the vehicle. Fortunately they were not my first experiences nor where they anything but a couple of oddball occurrences and just having the device meant I could get a useful tune in the end.

Don't expect double digit percentage gains from a canned tune, that would mean that the OEM programmers really F'd up and left a lot of potential behind.
Also lots old school "gross" techniques won't work - a good tune will involve looking at all the maps and changing the topography of them, not just elevating all the points. The old days of "rotating the distributor in the chip" won't work.

[American Viking]

Originally Posted by sarguy01

It makes sense the local dyno was able to find more power. SCT didn't have your specific car to tune, they were only doing some basic modifications.
What are your before and after numbers for the highway mpg increase?
How much do you have into the SCT and tuning? I am curious.

I was getting 21.5 mpg on a daily 112 mile (103 highway mile), 60 mph average (72 mph peak), commute before I purchased the SCT XCalibrator I (bought on Ebay for $125 at the time when the XCal2 was just out).
The first let me say, the tune that I got from SCT was not the standard "canned" tune that they sold for every other Mustang GT at the time. I asked for some particular changes when I sent them my PCM and short list of upgrades.
Out of the box, It did make a noticeable difference in throttle response, reduced throttle hang time, corrected the odometer measurement and smoothed the cruise control operation. The corrected odometer didn't help the mileage as it reduced the odometer reading by 7%. Still the corrected odometer mpg went up to 22.1 mpg (a less than 2.8%).
What I really did not like was that this tune was for 93 octane gasoline and yet did not yield more noticeable power or mileage.
I took the GT to one of the first Dynojet all-wheel drive unit equipped shops in town, with a couple of friends. We rented out the shop two weekends in a row for a little less than $300 each.
I flashed back the stock calibration to start the. I got a peak power - 195 hp at 4450rpm, peak tq - 260 ft-lbs at 3400rpm, but torque off idle just 220 ft-lbs at 1500rpm.
The canned map only added about peak 12 hp and 8 ft-lbs.
We started out by changing the rpm and load scaling on all the maps, Smaller rpm increments from 1200rpm to 3000rpm, stock increments up to 4000rpm, then large increments in the upper rpm. Also expanding from small TPS percentage changes from 5% to 30%, stock through the middle openings, and then a couple large throttle openings.
Then we changed the entire ignition timing map, altered a lot of fuel tables, extended the idle fuel trim allowances, added the correct LB/h flow ratings for the injectors.
After at least a dozen pulls, in 3rd and 4th gears, running 89 octane gas the peaks were only up another 6 hp and 10 ft-lbs, but down at 1500 rpm we had a 20 ft-lb increase.
The next months mileage average was up to 26.4mpg (That's a 22.7% increase). Throttle was crisp, power for passing was good, I probably could have nursed a few more mpg out of it by driving more conservatively.
That was how I kept the tune until a couple years later when the engine got drown in a tropical storm and hydro-locked.
The replacement crate motor had different heads, cams, exhaust, injectors and more, so I can't compare the mileage and power numbers I got when I tuned it with the same tool.