I have an idea about flash tuning

[backpacker3]

So I was just looking at some stuff for my car and saw some flash tuning devices. Not the little magic boxes on ebay but these are computers that hold tunes that are specifically designed for the vehicle and they really do work besides holding several tunes ( usually a stock tune, a valet mode tune, and some performance tunes.) they also can log data and monitor different parameters and capture 0-60 times.

Now you're probably thinking what does this have to do with getting better fuel economy? Well you've probably seen how a lot of newer cars have buttons that say sport or eco and comfort or something like that and pressing one makes the car more sporty to drive or gives better FE or makes it like a basic stock tune that is the same thing as a flash tuner pretty much. Pressing the button tells the car to use that tune for whatever button was pushed. So I was thinking why couldn't there be a way for a flash tuner to have EcoTunes that give better FE?

Has anyone ever tried tuning a car for better FE I figure someone with the right programming knowledge could take a existing flash tuner and find a way to store different tuning software on it and you could even have it display fuel consumption instead of acceleration times.

Now if that wasn't possible I wonder if an arduino powered device could do something similar but someone with experience would have to chime in there.

The problems.
first of all you would have to find someone to make a tune for every model of vehicle the device would be used on. And those tunes would have to be tested

Possible solution. If someone had there own vehicle tuned they could share it with others afterward

Second modifications to the vehicle might cause problems with the tune and different hypermiling techniques might cause problems as well

Possible solution. Keep modification in mind when tuning the vehicle/ test with modifications/driving techniques.

So what do all of you think worthwhile to consider or not worth the time?

[poomanchu]

Yes! You can switch tunes at the switch of a button! In my Integra, I have a 91 octane tune and a E85 tune. My friend has a 'low boost tune' and high boost, though he has to switch that in his laptop.

Keep in mind my answers are purely with my experiences, it may be different for another brand.

Cost of the Engine management system installed and ecu: $600. hondata.com
Cost of the tune: Average dyno rate is $10o/hr, tuners charge anywhere from $100/hr to $500 per tune. Servion Tuning

There are many benefits to having a custom tune, OEM tunes are very conservative and 'safe' so you can get some power or efficiency I am sure. Is it worth it? For mpg's, no way.

You can 'share' tunes, though someone elses tune that works is really just a fancy basemap and I would still recommend having a one off done for your car.

If your vehicle is modified you will probably get more out of your tune.

[backpacker3]

I think we might be thinking of different things the flash tuners I was talking about do t need to be installed they just plug into the obd2 port here is a picture of what I was thinking of


Or something like this would be even better

[poomanchu]

Aha yes we are. Doh! 'Flash' tuner not EMS!

*sheepish

[niky]

I know that there are some guys who've experimented with economy tunes. Some of the commercial maps clean up excessively rich areas of the map while still giving more power.

But the gains from this aren't huge. A little bit here and there. To create a tune for maximum economy means running things very lean in areas, which leaves less margin for error when you get a batch of bad gas or if the weather gets too hot. It takes a lot of development, and I don't know if there's enough of a customer base for this to be commercialized. (I mean, a lot of people might want it, but how many are willing to pay? And you'd have to develop a "safe" map for each model you support...)

Some newer cars already come with such maps for their "Eco modes", and they include dialled back timing, dulled throttle response and altered transmission algorithms.

[backpacker3]

Originally Posted by niky

But the gains from this aren't huge. A little bit here and there. To create a tune for maximum economy means running things very lean in areas, which leaves less margin for error when you get a batch of bad gas or if the weather gets too hot. It takes a lot of development, and I don't know if there's enough of a customer base for this to be commercialized. (I mean, a lot of people might want it, but how many are willing to pay? And you'd have to develop a "safe" map for each model you support...)

Some newer cars already come with such maps for their "Eco modes", and they include dialled back timing, dulled throttle response and altered transmission algorithms.

That's the advantage of a flash tuner though you can still switch between a number of different tunes including a stock tune. You could even use a custom flash tuner in place of a scangauge or ultragauge. I wouldn't necessarily try to sell this I really would like to try to makes this something you can build yourself like the MPGuino. Also I get that even for those who have a manual transmission this isn't as helpful either but for someone with a automatic adjusting those parameters can improve gas mileage quite a bit.

This would be pretty similar to the "Eco modes" in new cars if you look at my original post I talked about that. I was just wondering if anyone has experimented with tuning a car for gas mileage only.

[niky]

I have. It's not pretty. You give up a lot of power. Driveability suffers. If my chip (and car) hadn't spent a day under water last year, I would still be fiddling with it. The margins for gains aren't really that big, I think over a proper power tune.

Typically, a naturally aspirated flash tune already makes the car slightly more economical... sometimes manufacturers add a little too much fueling at low rpm... a good clean up pulls back fueling at idle and at low rpm and cruising rpm.

[backpacker3]

Thanks for the reply I've looking into some stuff about this I think there is a little room for improvement possibly slightly more than what you may have gotten but that also could depend on what car you have and the options on it.

My thoughts so far are these: cleaning up in general like niky mentioned, adjusting rpms at idle (less revs at idle would help especially on older cars that might have developed a high idle over time) adjusting automatic transmission shift points and shifting precision as well as some other parameters there.

The A/T shifting will save fuel at least for me as there are people that have gotten good results from cleaning up their transmission already in j-body cars and I'm sure just about any auto could improve from cleaning up the parameters there.

I'm also wondering about improving the low end tourqe since this is a big factor in fuel economy. If you could get better acceleration at lower rpms this will help both auto and manual trans cars because it will allow for lower rpms through out the gear range if done properly.

I'm still researching this so I will post back as that continues.

[sarguy01]

As poomanchu mentioned, the costs are surely to outweigh the benefits. I think we all agree that an increase can be had with a tune, either via a flash or stand alone.

Let's look at the payback: 30 to 31.5 increase in mileage (5%). With gas at $3.50 and the tune/equipment cost of $500 (which is probably unlikely to be this cheap) you are looking at a payback of 90,000 miles. If it cost $1,000, it would take 180,000 miles. That is a very long time for a payback.

Even with a 10% increase with the above variables, you'd be looking at a 47,100 miles for a project cost of $500. 47,000 miles is 2-3+ years of driving.

Now, if you had a fleet of the same vehicle, a reduced rate for tuning costs and a discounted equipment cost, then it might be worth the time.

Then again, if you want to pay for it just to experiment, then the payback cost is out the window since personal reasons overcame the cost.

[Cobb]

If it works, you can resell it as used for aless than you paid for it and recoup some of your costs. Hell, I bet you could do that several times here. Im interested in one for my 2010 honda insight, but I cant get a firm answer if it will work on my car. I feel the timing could be more with the use of premium or ethanol blend fuel and changes to the cvt ratios.