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Old 03-19-2008, 03:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
Red
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DifferentPointofView View Post
Or maybe if your lucky, TALLER!!!
Need a sawzall for that

If stock was a 235 extragoode then you have already "regeared" by running the 30" I think you went up about 2" in diameter.

Cowspots, where can you find a place to do gears for $300 a diff? Last time I checked around its about $1200 bucks for both front and rear axles. Add a bit more if you want a locker or an LSD added.

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Old 03-19-2008, 06:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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extragoode -

Quote:
Originally Posted by extragoode View Post
...

Whoever it was that was talking about a 5th gear swap, no I haven't done much research on the transmission at all. How hard was it to replace that gear? I want it to be worth while if I'm going to go the trouble of doing transmission work.

...
This will get you started. You won't be able to see the pictures in this thread :

MP2 5th Gear Swap into MP3 Online ...
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=105555

But, here is my saturnfans picture gallery where you can see the pictures :

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...1/ppuser/20905
http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...0/ppuser/20905
http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...9/ppuser/20905
http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...8/ppuser/20905

My swap was easy because the FWD 5th gear was in a position where my mechanic didn't even have to drop the tranny. It's just an "accidental virtue" of Saturn S-Series cars.

You have to do lots of homework on your model of transmission. Was it a "generic" type that was used in other cars? Is the 5th gear easy to get at or do you have to tear apart the transmission? Every car is different.

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Old 03-19-2008, 06:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Extragoode:
Check out www.ringpinion.com Randy’s Ring & Pinion has a very wide selection of R&P sets. Know what your axles are as the R&P sets are for specific axles. Get the “R&P kit” as this kit includes new bearings and seals.

As for bigger tires, I can give you one piece of advice: If you increase tire diameter, your MPG will DECREASE. Repeat DECREASE. This seems counter-intuitive but it is borne out by empirical data reported by literally hundreds of people.

Three things cause MPG to go down as tire diameter increases.

First is that the rotational moment of inertia increases with the square of the diameter. This means you have four bigger “flywheels” you have to spin up everytime you pull away from a stop. If you were an over-the-road trucker – a creature of the superslab – this would not be very important. They get up to speed and keep rolling at the same speed for hours on end. I daresay you don’t drive that way. You do some stop-and-go. Big wheels stick it to you at every light.

Secondly rolling resistance seems to go up with tire diameter. I am screwed with my 16 inch wheels. The highest MPG cars tend to have clown-car tiny tires. Rolling resistance matters a lot at slow speeds.

Third, bigger diameter tires raise the vehicle up and open up more underside air flow issues. Bigger diameter tires may require a lift which further compounds the problems.

Changing the R&P should cost you in the neighborhood of $1,000 per axle. Almost any good jeep shop can do this specialized piece of work. Setting hypoid gear backlash is not a business for the shade-tree mechanic.

Another approach (often favored by 4x4 types) is to install an aftermarket overdrive. The names in overdrives are US Gear and Gear Vendors. The US Gear unit fits between your transmission and transfer case, where the Gear Vendors fits to the back of the transfer case. The GV automatically disengages when you engage the transfer case. You could operate in “4x4 overdrive” with the US Gear but I don’t know why you’d want to. The US Gear unit gives you a 20% overdrive (ratio = 0.8:1) where the Gear Vendor gives you a 22% overdrive (ratio = 0.78:1). Both overdrives are far stronger than any vehicle you own. An overdrive will set you back between $3000 and $4000 installed.

Changing your gearing is indeed a salty proposition but it is without question the most powerful ecomod you can do. By changing my rear axle from 3.73 to 3.08 (an 18% reduction) I gained 3 solid MPG – a 17% improvement. BTW, 1700 RPM @70 MPH. Going to a lower numerical ratio works by reducing your engine frictional HP. If anything it would be more effective on your normally-aspirated gas engine than on my turbo-diesel, as you have to do a lot more air pumping using engine power.

Would I do it again? Hell yes. In fact I intend to do it again on my truck this summer. I intend to install a US Gear unit to gain a seventh gear and an overall 2.46:1 ratio for 1350 RPM @ 70 MPH.
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:15 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I can see how rolling resistance could go up when the diameter of the tire is increased because the size of the contact patch will increase, but I would go to more narrow tires, so the decreased drag, and marginall same weight and contact patch should produce a FE increase, but I'd have to run some numbers on some specific tires.
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:12 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Absolutely not, Frank? How can you say that? A tabulation of rolling resistance of tires done by a "green" organization showed that the small-diameter tires on 14" rims had lower rolling resistance than the big tires mounted on 16" rims.

If we were talking steel railroad wheels I would agree but we are not.

But if you have data refuting that, I'd love to see it.
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:20 PM   #16 (permalink)
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but you are comparing different rim sizes, which adds unsprung weight to the tire, more weight on the tire=higher rolling resistance. You need to do say a 180/40R14 tire and compare it with a 180/50R14 tire on the same rims.
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Old 03-20-2008, 02:45 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Red,

You are right in that if you bring your KY Jelly and show up at a tranny shop with your checkbook in hand, you can expect a HUGE BILL for changing gearsets. Depending on the year of Extragoode's Frontier, there are complete axles on eBay right now for $159 & up already set up. If freight is about $100 and new U-bolts are about $25 AND you are like me and do it all yourself, then a budget of $600 is just about doable. No shop will do anything for $300 anymore it seems.

Has Extragoode calibrated his/her speedo? Perhaps the previous owner put in lower gears to pull those huge meats around as they are going to have a huge rolling resistance. Narrow & tall tires are a better bet for mpg, so whip out your wallet. If you want maximum mpg then that off road mountain goat image has got to go. There are many ratios available and I would look for stock or close to it. Determine your present ratio by painting a stripe onto your driveshaft and tires, then count shaft vs. tire revolutions. Do the math.

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Old 03-20-2008, 02:50 AM   #18 (permalink)
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http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/233955

Extragoode: Peek here, then crawl under that Frontier w/notepad and pencil.
Based on tires, RPM and speed, I'm betting on a set of 5.143:1 gears in there.

Good Luck,
Cowspots

Last edited by Cowspots; 03-20-2008 at 02:55 AM.. Reason: Falling asleep at keyboard!
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:25 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Yes, it would help to know what your current axle ratios are.

I wish I had room under the ZJ for an overdrive unit. I hate to thinkof the driveline vibes I'd get with a shortened and steeper rear driveline...
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:37 AM   #20 (permalink)
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The taller you buy your tires the thinner the tire you have to buy to maintain/improve fuel mileage , i was running 245/75R16 on the chevy getting about 16 mpg in town and highway mix, when i went up to 285/75R16 it dropped to about 14, thats alot of tire meat to push around , it was the same way on my 1990 chevy, and my beretta, but imagine if you went with a taller tire with less width , you have less road contact to rubber while maintaing your lowered gear ratio

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