Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Hybrids
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-27-2013, 07:50 PM   #71 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: tallahassee
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
electric motor connected to inline driveshaft

Did anyone ever answer this question for DROPTAIL with satisfaction. I read through the whole thread and saw positives and negatives on what he was trying to do, but my search across the whole internet only got to one thing. It was this guy:

I cant post links yet so search this in youtube:
"Re-InVolt Hybrid Electric Truck Conversion Plug-In"

It seemed he was bought out, sued, or silenced in some other manner.



In any case I encourage them to try it and I hope DROPTAIL started something. I have a 2001 2WD Suburban and I definitely wanted to try it, that is why I was glad this thread came up in my search.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 04-16-2016, 07:49 PM   #72 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
gumby79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Butte, Montana
Posts: 717

little jona - '91 Dodge D 250 first gen cummins LE
Team Streamliner
90 day: 23.4 mpg (US)

Little Jona airo modded - '91 Dodge RAM 3/4 TON D 250 24 AUTO
Pickups
Team Cummins
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

The Salted Hound Jenny. - '87 Dodge Ram 50/D-50 5sp 4X4
90 day: 20.24 mpg (US)

Jona Allison aero - '91 Dodge Ram D-250 Le
90 day: 21.86 mpg (US)
Thanks: 207
Thanked 418 Times in 271 Posts
You stirred the pot. Got my brain turning!

What year make modle?
What transmission t-case, what rear gear, gas /diesel ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ View Post
Have you actually checked to verify that you have front output when in 2HI mode? Most tcases do not.
except ath "NP (new possess) 203" has
4LOW LOCK
4LOW
N
4HI
4HI LOCK
5 DETENT SHIFTER ALL 4 GO MODES ARE 4WD.


T CASE actually acts like an open differential. Power goes the path of least resistance eg: Stripped the drive splines on the right front stub shaft/ huband had to shift from (4 hi open)2wd to(4hi lock) 4wd to get move the truck. Truck in in gear 2wd hi and going nowhere just a grinding noise from the right front wheel.

These were used by Ford Gm and Dodge for the 70's and 80's aka all full size domestic 4x4's smaller than duce and a hafe. This makes them common and cheep. 2.0:low
Some 203's have factory or aftermarket parttime kits that included lockouts for the front axle. That actually decouple the chain drive and are thire for 2x4 with this shift patern:
4LO
2LO rear only
N
2HI rear only
4HI



The 45mph recommendation is a NHTSA/Auto Mfr recommendation based on the fact that if you needed 4wd, you probably shouldn't be going more than 45mph anyway, not to mention that tire slip increases at higher speeds, and true 4wd systems don't steer well when in use, thus making a very dangerous situation at higher speeds. It's just plain unsafe, and there is no discussion necessary on that topic.
is this speed for a newer truck in low range with a double overdrive? See above Ive had my 79 Chevrolet k-20 over 110mph @~5000rpm with ~2000rpm left, was fast enough for 33's and 4"lift 6000lbs truck , on CA99 befor I stripped the hub. Aka full-time44.
The shorter ratios, I was wrong about. They would mean nothing in your case, since you're driving on a 1:1 ratio from front to rear output shafts. after I spit the part-time kit out the side of the tail housing of my np203 and cracked the bellhousing
Attachment 19917were the part-time kit attempted to escape my np203
Attachment 19916 rear mount flang of the th400
Attachment 19915 bell cracked 70% I finished it off with a hammer befor recycling them both.



In most cases, 4Lo is not recommended for use on any surface that isn't soft. As such, you shouldn't be outside of low gear when using it.
>5mph with a 2.48 1st 2.0 low 4.10 rear=20.33:final GM recommendation is 25mph, ~3000rpm, in 3rd I hit red line at 35mph. A first of 7.xx SM 420(from the 60's /SM435 (used through the 90's)= 1mph red line . This first gear recommendation is Ludacris IMHO.



These really shouldn't have to be discussed... talk to a few offroaders that have had to limp home on FWD only, and you'll figure out that they're practices that should be adhered to fairly well.

The speed limitations for 4wd mode don't apply if you're using the motor in place of the front axle connection, because you won't be turning all 4 tires under power, so you can disregard that part.

Mounting the motor inline with the rear driveshaft DOES NOT subject it to suspension abuse. I'm not sure where you came up with that...

Using that configuration would also allow you to remove the motor from the driveline by removing a few bolts and replacing the original drive shaft... not sure how hard you think that is, but if you find it difficult to R&R a driveshaft with a carrier bearing, you probably shouldn't even be thinking about this type of mod.

Mounting it from the front input of the xfer case does not give you a "gear reduction for low speed use." a twin stick NP205 canas you'll be driving the rear shaft at a 1:1 speed through the xfer case, no matter what gear you're in, unless you have two differential sizes in the front and rear, which is highly unlikely. If both axles have the same differential speed, you'll have the same 1:1 ratio in the t-case no matter what range you select, as this is the nature of 4wd... turn front and back so they match each other based on the engine's input...


After blowing my TH400/NP203 combo I installed a custom TH400/NP 205 twin stick with a 800stall to hold up to my ~400hp engine no mud boggen,just rock crawling ,hi way and , Wood hauling .
The twin stick comes in 2 version; 1 with the stock lock out matching your discretion of 1:1 . 2 extreme no lockout front low/ rear hi 2:1 3000@60mph rear /6000 frontor vica verca.
The extreme is for a form of "DIG" insted of just putting the rear in N it s powered at a different rate to facilitate turnning sharper than other wise posable, and for face climbing.
As i said "Extreme " not hi way
I ordered myself option 1 with lockout to protect from friends using my truck and a MSD 6 digital with the secondary rev limiterset to 3000rpm on a hiden toggle.



A np 205 would alow a 2:1 reduction with the motor bolted the front out put shaft .
Quote:
by removing the interlock pills. Without the pills in place the transfer case can be shifted into front-wheel low and rear-wheel high or vice versa. Needless to say, this is bad. (Not fi hooked to a motor inster of an axel) Spinning the front and rear driveshafts at different rates
Twin-Stick Shifter NP205 - Tech Articles - Jp Magazine
----
Quote:
If I were doing this project, I'd probably get the output shafts from a VW transaxle, for the flanges, then get the CV joints that match them. Put the flanges on each shaft of the motor, then put the CV joints on the ends of the 2 driveshafts that mount up to each side of the motor, then mount the motor to the frame using a solid mount rail, something like a transmission cross member.
Duse the vw cv have enough stroke?
A slip joint would be needed between the transmission and motor for frame flex as well as between the motor and axle for suspension flex. And can the vw withstand my 400+ftlb diesel.?
----
Could the motor be run through the PTO ? If yes then hear is your needed reduction and retaine 44.
Im glad this discussion is happening as its from another like mind.but from a better speller.
I'VE been interested in doing this in the past but back then the inline motor wasn't available and I wasn'tup to R&D Prototyping one.
Gumby stay flexible.
__________________
1st gen cummins 91.5 dodge d250 ,HX35W/12/6 QSV
ehxsost manafulld wrap, Aero Tonto
best tank: distance 649gps mi 24.04 mpg 27.011usg
Best mpg : 31.32mpg 100mi 3.193 USG 5/2/20


Former
'83 GMC S-15 Jimmy 2door 2wd O/D auto 3.73R&P
'79 Chevy K20 4X4 350ci 400hp msd custom th400 /np205. 7.5-new 14mpg modded befor modding was a thing
87' Hyundai Excel
83 ranger w/87 2.9 L FI2wd auto 18mpg on the floor
04 Mitsubishi Gallant 2.4L auto 26mpg
06 Subaru Forrester XT(WRX PACKAGE) MT AWD Turbocharged 18 plying dirty best of 26mpg@70mph
95Chevy Blazer 4x4 auto 14-18mpg
04 Chevy Blazer 4x4 auto 16-22mpg


  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2016, 03:36 AM   #73 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
GreenHornet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 429
Thanks: 41
Thanked 108 Times in 68 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by droptail View Post
Thanks for your opinions. I'd like to hear other peoples inputs as well.
It sounds like you are stuck on the inline option. When I worked for GM back in the day we pioneered the BAS system = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAS_Hybrid

This is a simple setup that allows you to use your transmission gearing thus allowing a much smaller more efficient E-motor. This also allows you to replace the alternator with the much more powerful E-motor. A setup like this could be implemented easily and for much less I imagine. This setup would more than handle what you are proposing for low speed stop and go purposes.

When you go inline you need a much larger E-motor because it is going after the transmission not allowing gearing advantage. You can easily purchase a 20kw peak Brushless permanent magnet motor that weighs around 10lbs that would do the job no problem. I have a custom electric supercharger setup that replaces the alternator and also can drive the car if desired.

This is another option that I thought I would point out
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to GreenHornet For This Useful Post:
California98Civic (05-20-2016), jray3 (05-20-2016)
Old 05-20-2016, 11:17 AM   #74 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,092

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,307
Thanked 2,023 Times in 1,380 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenHornet View Post
It sounds like you are stuck on the inline option. When I worked for GM back in the day we pioneered the BAS system = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAS_Hybrid
Do you know which trims, or even better, which engine codes to look for in researching this? The wikis seem incomplete. I am curious.

EDIT: also, the setup you describe means you have reverse gear too. Because transmission. Cool.
__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.




Last edited by California98Civic; 05-20-2016 at 11:33 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2016, 01:15 PM   #75 (permalink)
Karmann Eclectric
 
jray3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Graham, WA
Posts: 165

Odysseus - '00 Honda Odyssey

MR BEAN - '12 Mitsubishi i-MiEV SE

Karmann Eclectric - '71 VW Karmann Ghia Electric Conversion

BOB - '87 Ford 250 Lariat ext cab
Thanks: 9
Thanked 90 Times in 51 Posts
Arrow Bas-yes

Thank you Green Hornet.
I had one of the Saturn VUE Green Line with the 36V BAS. Great little system that matched fuel economy with the much pricier Ford Escape (Prius) drivetrain. Only gripe was the redundant 12V starter- couldn't see why they didn't use the BAS for cold starts as well as hot restarts. Also, why include the 12V alternator rather than a 36-to-12V DC/DC converter?

Any links on your electric supercharger? I've got perfect real estate on my 6.9 IDI for one in place of the AC compressor.
__________________
2012 Mitsubishi i-MiEV, 112 MPGe
2000 Honda Odyssey
1987 F250 Diesel, 6.9L IDI, goes on anything greasy
1983 Grumman Kurbwatt, 170 kW "Gone Postal" twin
1983 Mazda RX-7 electric, 48 kW car show cruiser
1971 VW Karmann Ghia electric, 300 kW tire-smoker
1965 VW Karmann Ghia cabriolet, 1600cc
Have driven over 100,000 all-electric miles!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2016, 10:11 PM   #76 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
GreenHornet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 429
Thanks: 41
Thanked 108 Times in 68 Posts
I would prefer not to hijack the OP thread on this so if somebody would like to create a new thread titled BAS we can get some info flowing in that if you all would like. As far as the Custom Electric Supercharger I have you can see pics with a little info about it in my Centurion #4 car build over in the Ecomodding Central Forum = http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post493646
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2016, 02:50 PM   #77 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,092

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,307
Thanked 2,023 Times in 1,380 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenHornet View Post
I would prefer not to hijack the OP thread on this so if somebody would like to create a new thread titled BAS we can get some info flowing in that if you all would like. As far as the Custom Electric Supercharger I have you can see pics with a little info about it in my Centurion #4 car build over in the Ecomodding Central Forum = http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post493646
Then I'll make this my last on BAS in this thread, just to say, I created the BAS thread you suggested: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ead-33854.html

james

__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electric car conversion: Project ForkenSwift MetroMPG Fossil Fuel Free 1041 07-28-2014 09:19 AM
Longtime Lurker Looking for Miles ZX40 Electric Micro van mods & information rmay635703 Fossil Fuel Free 49 07-06-2014 10:27 PM
Motor probs - commutacar electrique Forum News & Feedback 7 09-11-2009 02:14 AM
Motor Brush Advance TomEV Fossil Fuel Free 19 05-07-2009 11:50 PM
AC Induction Motor used as Brushless DC? WaxyChicken Fossil Fuel Free 5 01-29-2008 09:26 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com