Intake Manifold Injection

[MGB=MPG]

The question is: will injection of *Various Fluids & Vapors * directly in to the intake manifold enhance Fuel Efficiency,

reference document :
http://www.epa.gov/oms/consumer/devices/pb84163062.pdf

addition of this device is strongly discouraged on any unit operating with Catalytic Converters and computerized engine controls.
test bed: Old Yellar
Engine:NA inline 4 , 1800 CC * B* internals stock 103K miles
Ignition: Lucas 25D Points Type , custom vacuum and centrifugal advance curves
Carburetter: Skinners Union HIF 44 single side draught
Air Filter K&N in stock Coopers Can air box Cold Air Ram Induction
Timing Advance and Carb enrichment set *by ear* in reference to EGT and Manifold Vacuum

Device:AMPCO Auxiliary Lubrication ST100 New Old Stock here after known as the Pickle Jar device is powered by intake manifold vacuum
this device differs from reference document insomuch as they are Vaporizers AKA Bubblers and the ST 100 draws fluids from the bottom of the bowl and Mixes then with ambient air using a filtered intake and an adjustable needle valve while referring to a sight glass .
specification fluid is Mystery Marvel Oil [MMO]
The Vehicle will not be returned to Zero State for base lines any baselines will be operation with only MMO .
Historical Baseline w/o the device is 27-29 MPG , no data provided
no runs will be made with Empty Vessel as required by rigorous testing.

Various Fluids are in consideration for the Mix to be injected hereinafter known as the Soup

MMO: Light Lubricating Petroleum TOP OIL density 0.876,
mixes very slightly with alcohol not at all with water

Castor Oil : a lubricating product density 0.961
soluble in alcohol

Water: [H20] Density 1.0

Methanol: Methyl Alcohol[CH3OH] density 0.79
miscible with water

Nitromethane: an industrial solvent [ CH3NO2] density 1.137
mixes with water one part to ten, miscible with methanol

it would be desired to mix 10-20% Castor oil in the soup however it is the most expensive product.
proposed soup W/O water
Castor Oil 5%
NM 20 %
M 75 %
this mixture [20% Nitro] is readily available in consumer quantities
in any good hobby shop known as RC Glow Fuel

the density of this soup will be greater than MMO and the light oil will cap the mix and reduce volatile evaporation

it would be desired to mix the 20% Nitro 1/1 with water to extend the mixture however if trials show no effect at that level straight 20% nitro would be considered .
30% 40% 50% Nitro might be considered but the possibility catastrophic engine failure exists .careful adjustment of Ignition advance and carb enrichment must be done to preclude too lean a mixture in the combustion chamber and consequent detonation and valve burning.
feed rate to be NO MORE than 1 QT per tank of fuel appx 300-350 miles

other possible mixes :
MW50 [ Methanol/Water 50/50]
MW30 [methanol/water 30/70] AKA -20F windshield washer fluid

Pickle Jar on the fire wall and injector into the intake manifold midway between the Siamesed intake ports,after the throttle plate .
this means that as throttle application is decreased and manifold vacuum increases feed rate will increase .

Trials Commence in March

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by MGB=MPG

feed rate to be NO MORE than 1 QT per tank of fuel appx 300-350 miles

I'm looking forward to seeing the results, though only a quart (almost 1 L) on a full tank (how big is the tank ?) probably isn't going to be much.

[MGB=MPG]

fuel tank : 50L/13 us Gal
not yet determined the *width* of the flow rate for the device IE: how long a QT would last at various adjustments of the needle valve 1/4 turn , 1/2 turn ,1 Turn , 2 turn etc.
at design feed rates [appx 1/4 turn][with MMO only] the QT allegedly last several thousand miles
just the top oil *might* effect the FE

at a feed rate of 1 qt /tank [appx 300 miles ] an increase of about 7-8% would be required to off set the cost of the mix.

i have procured enough product for 7 QT 20% NM.
in heritage machinery of this type the only way to calculate MPG is the run a tank ,fill and divide method. Certainly measurement errors at refuel will skew the results on ONE RUN trials

i will not do expect to do extended *special * trips on trials . rather keep records during normal usage thus the wait time between measurements may be quite long.

the initial trial quantity of product should be adequate to determine IF any FE & Power effect is produced and if further trials are warranted.

Power Increases measured by the classic enthusiast *Butt Dyno*

advise on initial amounts/percentages of water[H2O] to add to the 20% soup might be helpful
some apparent choices:
100% soup no water
75% soup 25 % water
50% soup 50% water
i am inclined to the 75/25 but care must be taken due to the available oxy in the mix and the effect of leaning the mixture to high a % soup and too high a flow rate *could* burn holes in the piston.

[Arragonis]

I'd be interested in what the flame looks like with the mix, do you have or could you invest in a colortune ? EDIT - this may help prevent you from leaning out too much. You have the right SU for this though.

My GT ('73 UK spec) has twin SUs but the engine has suffered from a lack of maintenance and is begorrad at 87k miles. I'm planning to EV it instead.

Do you have overdrive ?

[MGB=MPG]

no colour tune ..

i tune to this chart , by ear, vacuum and EGT as best i can , mostly by ear
of interest subsequent to the addition of the K&N performance air filter the break on the rich side of the curve was unattainable /undetectable. tuned down from full rich to the break for setting , next carb tune in consideration of the dangers of overly lean running i will add 1/4-1/2 rich from the break


if i had an adjustment screw with an extension brazed on it , a torque tube fitted and extended to the panel , enrichment adjustment on the fly in reference to the EGT would be *spiffy*

no OD ,, mine carries 103 K if you were down the way i think i could make the GT sing for you ,, for the MG enthusiast
check out

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[EdKiefer]

Originally Posted by MGB=MPG

no colour tune ..

i tune to this chart , by ear, vacuum and EGT as best i can , mostly by ear
of interest subsequent to the addition of the K&N performance air filter the break on the rich side of the curve was unattainable /undetectable. tuned down from full rich to the break for setting , next carb tune in consideration of the dangers of overly lean running i will add 1/4-1/2 rich from the break


if i had an adjustment screw with an extension brazed on it , a torque tube fitted and extended to the panel , enrichment adjustment on the fly in reference to the EGT would be *spiffy*

no OD ,, mine carries 103 K if you were down the way i think i could make the GT sing for you ,, for the MG enthusiast
check out

The MG Experience: Serving MGB, GT, V8, Midget, MGA, MGC, Magnette & all MG Owners: Forums, Library, Registry, Repair, Restoration, Events Calendar, Cars For Sale, Free Classifieds and more

active forum with knowledgeable members

From what I remember these types of slow drip were meant for upper cylinder oiling in old vehicles , using MMO only . I think it may have help with valvetrain , keeping it oiled a bit .

Wow, I haven't worked on constant velocity carbs in long time (I used to hate tuning them ).
Does yours have bottom adjustment screw that raises the jet in height to the needle ?
Have you experimented with various weight oils in the chambers (to remove bogs or response .

[MGB=MPG]

EdKiefer
correct,, it is a well engineered top oilier . but one can put anything in there ,open up the needle valve a couple turns and it feeds pretty fast. im going to see what Top Fuel in metered amounts will do to FE. If it has effect that will be interesting, if not the top oil is all the good for the power plant
HS type adjust from the bottom the newer HIF type adjusts from the side
MMO seems to work good in the dashpot .

here is a schematic on the HS type

[EdKiefer]

Originally Posted by MGB=MPG

EdKiefer
correct,, it is a well engineered top oilier . but one can put anything in there ,open up the needle valve a couple turns and it feeds pretty fast. im going to see what Top Fuel in metered amounts will do to FE. If it has effect that will be interesting, if not the top oil is all the good for the power plant
HS type adjust from the bottom the newer HIF type adjusts from the side
MMO seems to work good in the dashpot .

here is a schematic on the HS type

I missed you listing its Skinner carb , thats not OEM on MGB was it ?
I remember Zenith-Stromberg or was that on Triumph's

[MGB=MPG]

Dual SU's were stock until 74 , then single Z-S 175, a true nightmare to tune .
the HI44 [same bore]is a direct bolt on replacement 3 screw tune ,there is some evidence in the literature that a single HIF 44 will give excellent mid range power and corresponding FE .

i don't suppose you know of an available top oil that is alcohol soluble ? Castor oil is and has some interesting properties but at 1$/oz i do not care to go to the 10-20% that i would like in this mix

[EdKiefer]

Originally Posted by MGB=MPG

Dual SU's were stock until 74 , then single Z-S 175, a true nightmare to tune .
the HI44 [same bore]is a direct bolt on replacement 3 screw tune ,there is some evidence in the literature that a single HIF 44 will give excellent mid range power and corresponding FE .

i don't suppose you know of an available top oil that is alcohol soluble ? Castor oil is and has some interesting properties but at 1$/oz i do not care to go to the 10-20% that i would like in this mix

Sorry, I don't , the only oil I ever ran across which is water soluble was machine cutting oil , which i doubt would be any help .
On similar note back in the late 70's early 80's I did use water injection on various vehicles with decent results .These were all carb and distributor type ignition . I was able to advance ignition timing and keep engine happy from pinging with results of slightly better response an mpg .