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Old 03-10-2013, 03:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jjackstone View Post
My biggest problem with this scenario would be swapping my brand new pack out with one of unknown quality or condition. Certainly there could be standards and regulations, but the unscrupulous can always find ways around those.
That is where a standard BMS with logging would help, but it's already been shown that EV's that are either sold without a battery pack have very little value and that extends to the few EV's out there that have been sold but the battery pack was leased, selling a car where you only own part of it drops the value more then selling an EV with a near wore out but functioning battery pack.
If I own my battery pack I'm also more likely to take care of it, if someone else owns it and I can get a different one any time then why should I care?

Quote:
As we all know, EVs have one big problem, refueling time.
I wasn't able to wrap my head around this until I started owning EVs and realized it's a mind set that is the product of owning liquid fueled vehicles, ask anyone who owns an EV if they think about recharge times and they will say no, unless the are gear heads who like data logging they have no idea how long it takes to charge their car, just like they have no idea how long it takes to charge their cell phone or lap top, you just plug it in and the rest is automatic! yes, some people buy extra cell phone batteries and lap top batteries so they can swap them out, but most of the time it is never removed from the device, EV battery packs have battery management systems that take much better care of the batteries in the vehicle then lap top and cell phones that are still using a very crude system to manage the cells if there even is a management system, so laptop and cell phone batteries tend to have much shorter lives.

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Old 03-10-2013, 05:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Renault wants you to lease battery pack fom "them", I find it the best way to tie consumer to authorised service, even better than long warranty term. They can for example say:

- We're sorry but we can't agree on you using our pack in you vehicle because you are servicing it yourself (like EVs need a lot of regular maintenance at all) and our diagnostic equipment says blah blah and our battery pack could suffer from your car. Join our $5 or $55 per week service plan and we'll continue leasing...

Yeah, conspiracy theory, I know, but I don't like customers dependance from seller or producer.
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:28 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
That is where a standard BMS with logging would help
Would help, but again, the unscrupulous will always find a way around that.
Remember when car dealers regularly rolled back odometers?

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If I own my battery pack I'm also more likely to take care of it,
Agree.
JJ
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:22 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I would be kind of like buying an electric Chevy S-10 with the Ni-Cad battery packs that someone didn't take care of or that had even a single cell go bad, you can't buy the batteries for them any more so you are stuck retrofitting some other batteries in to the vehicle.

Battery swapping is also going to limit vehicle design, does the Smart EV get the same battery pack as a much larger vehicle? if Chevy makes an electric only Volt with it's "T" shaped pack that runs down the center how do they have to redesign the whole vehicle so it's a flat pack that mounts under the floor?

As it is we drive to much and we drive alone more and more and it's only getting worse, we need to get over our selves and the idea that we need to be able to do cross country road trips on a whim in our personal vehicle and instead work on improving our public transit systems and car share programs so when you get to the city you are going to you can check out a personal vehicle if the local mass transit doesn't meet your needs.
It's the idea of working smarter, not harder.
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:10 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:25 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The OP reminds me of the days I worked second shift at the warehouse... changing batteries in the pickers was a dreadful task... They were heavy, they were cumbersome, and lining everything up sucked.

I believe refueling times would only be reduced more than the fast chargers is to have a consumable that could be replenished quickly... as in a fuel... which kind of defeats the purpose IMO. People demand more range and shorter charging times... Upping the voltage and amperage of the charging side has cost and risk.... Combining all of the issues with the regulations that cars have to go through carrying all the weight of safety equipment....something has to give.

Sure in theory plug it in while you sleep is a great solution. Unless the issue is your drive exceeds the range or if for whatever reason someone forgot to plug it in (say the spouse or kid borrows it and forgets to plug it back in) or you need your vehicle for whatever reason off the normal cycle of charge/use.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:42 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I'm not trying to offend anyone but somehow I feel that amount of persons discussing in web about range issues and fast recharging times is at least 10^3 times greater than number of those who are experiencing these problems in real world and feel bad about it

PS: I still haven't finished my EV so I'm one of those keyboard warriors too
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:11 PM   #18 (permalink)
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17 minutes? I guess the 4 packs could be mounted to a holder with handle bars and an anderson connector so 2 guys can lift it out and lift in a new one in 5 minutes or less.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:51 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z_power View Post
I'm not trying to offend anyone but somehow I feel that amount of persons discussing in web about range issues and fast recharging times is at least 10^3 times greater than number of those who are experiencing these problems in real world and feel bad about it

PS: I still haven't finished my EV so I'm one of those keyboard warriors too
Believe me sir range of an electric vehicle is all too familiar to me.

Ever hypermile a cherry picker? I have so I wouldn't have to change the battery on my shift. I P&G even before I knew that P&G was... I would use the brake instead of plugging (a term meaning to use reverse to slow down the vehicle). I would move while raised, I turned off the on board fan and only used a brief honk of the horn to conserve as much power as possible. They didn't go that fast so I didn't bother with aero mods

I thought I would put my two cents in since I am probably one of only a few that actually has experience CHANGING an EV battery on a regular basis.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:57 PM   #20 (permalink)
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An electric cherry picker? Mike Debrowski 2000?

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