Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-22-2016, 03:21 PM   #2251 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 14,298
Thanks: 3,530
Thanked 4,727 Times in 3,763 Posts
Adrian Newey's Hypercar, the AM-RB001



Allegedly, it has more downforce than any other road-going car, with a smooth, ventless upper body and a stepped diffuser and other high jinks underneath.

Possibly not a lot of passenger leg-room.

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
aerohead (10-22-2016)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-23-2016, 05:43 AM   #2252 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,596

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,534
Thanked 3,383 Times in 2,128 Posts
Wouldn't that go in the unaerodynamic car thread?

Downforce = drag
__________________


  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2016, 11:02 AM   #2253 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
kach22i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 3,437
Thanks: 11
Thanked 2,210 Times in 1,553 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
Wouldn't that go in the unaerodynamic car thread?

Downforce = drag
I tried to find a CD of the car but failed.

I did find this however.

Aston Martin AM-RB 001 hypercar revealed - exclusive pictures | Autocar
Quote:
The AM-RB 001 has a small, adjustable, two-plane rear spoiler. “The rear wing will be an active element, but it doesn’t actually do that much. All it is doing is controlling the air off the top surfaces of the car,” said Palmer. “With your rear aerofoil, you want to cut the laminar flow and then you want to cut it as fast as you can so you don’t create drag. So you want it as far back as you can get it on the car within the limit of the regulations.”
You can gleam an awareness of drag as an issue from this.

You can also imagine that a car with a energy recovery system is attending to whole system approach.

Typically super-cars have high Cd's because of the cooling system and wings for down force.

Quote:
From the cabin rearwards, the car has “an F1 layout” for its cooling, engine and transmission systems.
This car has wings, but they are more for controlling flow than down force (they claim), and has radiators for cooling a big V12 but it's treated like an F1 (they claim).

If the claims hold true there is promise, but there is also room for skepticism.
__________________
George
Architect, Artist and Designer of Objects

1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2016, 12:31 PM   #2254 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 14,298
Thanks: 3,530
Thanked 4,727 Times in 3,763 Posts
My impression is that massive add-ons increase drag but shaping the underbody is 'free' down-force. kach22i says there're radiators, but I don't see much intake opening and only one exhaust.

The unaerodynamic thread is for things like this:


http://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2016/10/i-think-they-designed-this-soapbaox.html
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2016, 04:16 PM   #2255 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
kach22i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 3,437
Thanks: 11
Thanked 2,210 Times in 1,553 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
kach22i says there're radiators, but I don't see much intake opening and only one exhaust.
Of course there are radiators, it's not an air-cooled car. I suspect this concept mule does not have them installed yet. You can see the openings on either side but they look open/empty right now (and cut-out right side).

2017 Aston Martin AM-RB 001 Release | Cars Release Prices



If you know the F1 cooling system it is self explanatory.

http://atspeedimages.com/search.php?...200&length=100


More images and explaination in link below, last few paragraphs very telling.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/aston...t-look-review/

__________________
George
Architect, Artist and Designer of Objects

1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html

Last edited by kach22i; 10-24-2016 at 11:39 AM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kach22i For This Useful Post:
freebeard (10-23-2016)
Old 10-23-2016, 05:46 PM   #2256 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 14,298
Thanks: 3,530
Thanked 4,727 Times in 3,763 Posts
You mean this?

Quote:
“We’re really trying to think about it from first principals, particularly in terms of saying this is our vision of what this car should be. Something like a Porsche 911 is basically the triumph of evolution over a bad concept,” Newey says bluntly. “It’s a bad idea, and they’ve managed to make it half-decent by a whole bunch of engineering. The important thing is to get the concept right.”
The Motor Trend pictures on a white floor are helpful to explicate the underpinnings. It starts to look a lot like Colani's C-form...



...Just with the front wing and more elaborated fender forms.

It sounds like the NA V-12 is provisional. If they want to sell it in Germany after 2025, it will be all-electric.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2016, 08:12 PM   #2257 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,596

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,534
Thanked 3,383 Times in 2,128 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
My impression is that massive add-ons increase drag but shaping the underbody is 'free' down-force.
Certainly there are higher and lower drag versions of ways to get downforce but in the end, downforce is downforce and the cost of downforce is drag.

Thought experiment: 0 downforce car vs max downforce car doing a coast-down test. 0 car wins because it isn't using force vectored down.

I was taught in flight school that lift = drag.
__________________


  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Frank Lee For This Useful Post:
NeilBlanchard (10-25-2016)
Old 10-24-2016, 12:25 AM   #2258 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 14,298
Thanks: 3,530
Thanked 4,727 Times in 3,763 Posts
Thought experiment: "Straightenin' the curves and flattenin' the hills" with zero downforce.

'Free'≠zero. Can we agree on that?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2016, 12:43 AM   #2259 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,596

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,534
Thanked 3,383 Times in 2,128 Posts
I don't go fast enough to straighten anything with downforce.

Agree free doesn't = 0
__________________


  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2016, 03:17 AM   #2260 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: -
Posts: 27
Thanks: 9
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kach22i View Post
I tried to find a CD of the car but failed.

I did find this however.

Aston Martin AM-RB 001 hypercar revealed - exclusive pictures | Autocar
If laminar flow has higher drag than turbulent one, the body surely ain't slippery. And I guess that the body is one big draggy spoiler.
Reminds me of F1 F-ducts:
F Ducts: How do they work? | Formula One technology - Racecar Engineering

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
Wouldn't that go in the unaerodynamic car thread?
Downforce = drag
Aerodynamic != low drag.
Yes, a car that has high downforce and high drag, but good L/D is aerodynamic.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electric Cars Push Japan Engine Parts Makers to Crisis Mode tjts1 The Lounge 14 12-23-2012 01:47 PM
Name that Eco Car! Quiz: identify these aerodynamic production cars MetroMPG Aerodynamics 16 08-30-2009 06:24 AM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com