It's all over but for the sweating?

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

I offer a worked example, the UK climate change act - which is barking madness at several £tn to implement, but for which the author got put into the House of Lords.

I'm not familiar with that act, but 1) These are politicians we're talking about, no? and 2) Recall what I wrote earlier about everyone wanting to skim off a bit for themselves. Of course, if you let a certain type of politician at things, they can spend endless amounts of money while achieving negative results - see for just one instance the US War on Drugs.

1) how is forcing them to use unreliable and expensive energy supposed to make them better off.

I think "unreliable and expensive" is a pretty good description of the current fossil fueled power systems of most 3rd world countries. First off, no one is forcing them to use energy at all. If they want to use energy, it is, in the current state of things, probably cheaper* and certainly more reliable to use renewables. Consider phones as a parallel case: the 3d world isn't stringing millions of miles of copper wire (or even fiber) to provide telephone service.

*Note that renewable is now cheaper than fossil in Australia, per this: Renewable energy now cheaper than new fossil fuels in Australia | Bloomberg New Energy Finance

could you detail the effects hitting them now, due to CAGW (note the C).

I don't believe I said that the negative effects the 3rd world is now experiencing are due to climate change. They are due to the adoption (often forced) of western lifestyles, urbanization, etc.

Actually a third - could you indicate the negatives of what has happened in the 20th century in terms of climate so far ?

I suppose I could, if I wanted to do a bit of research, but that'd be entirely missing the point. It'd be like the guy who jumped off the Empire State Building complaining, as he passes the 20th floor, that the wind is mussing up his hair a bit.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by niky

The big question is what should our society evolve into to survive?

Extremophile bacteria.

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Extremophile bacteria.

...and humankind returns to its roots!

[niky]

Bacteria predate roots.

[freebeard]

I think "unreliable and expensive" is a pretty good description of the current fossil fueled power systems of most 3rd world countries.

At least no-one forced them into nuclear.

It has begun. 32 year service life. 60 years to decommission:

Duke Energy to Shut Crystal River Reactor in Florida - Bloomberg

Fossil fuels?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1025172926.htm

[TheEnemy]

The January 2013 report is in.

State of the Climate | Global Analysis - January 2012

•The combined global land and ocean average surface temperature for January 2012 was the 19th warmest on record at 12.35°C (54.23°F), which is 0.35°C (0.63°F) above the 20th century average of 12.0°C (53.6°F). The margin of error associated with this temperature is +/- 0.08°C (0.14°F). This January is the coolest of all months on record since February 2008. However, it also marks the 26th January and 323rd consecutive month with a global temperature above the 20th century average. The last month with below average temperatures was February 1985.

Edit to add: http://lasp.colorado.edu/sorce/data/tsi_data.htm

Average TSI looks to be about 1361.4w/m^2 for January.

[freebeard]

I'm curious what you think about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcm9qsVaf0o

I like Suspicious0bservers daily updates, and his claim that the Sun is a metallic liquid and not a gas.

[NeilBlanchard]

If the sun was already to a stage when it was mostly metal, we'd be dead - it would have expanded out past Jupiter. This will happen in about a billion years or so. It is still in the primary stage, fusing hydrogen into helium.

[TheEnemy]

Largely junk. Yes the magnetosphere has been weakening, but that will lead to increased atmospheric erosion.

[freebeard]

NeilBlanchard -- Where's the contradiction?
Metallic hydrogen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There was discussion of metallic helium in 2008 but it looks quiet since then:
https://www.google.com/search?q=metallic+helium

TheEnemy -- ... which will lead to governments doing dumb stuff like HAARP and chemtrails; at least according to him. I'll watch it again to see if I get anything else out of it.