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Old 09-16-2013, 05:39 AM   #941 (permalink)
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Just for the sake of discussion, Twoish is a good number, unless you are on public aid, then zero is a good number. Otherwise we have the same situation, you make your problems someone elses (not unlike environmental impact). I appreciate the demographics involved, again this is just for discussion.

 
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Old 09-16-2013, 05:54 AM   #942 (permalink)
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But I don't have a lot of faith in the "intellectual superiority" of the first world either, it is that grandiose notion that got us in this unsustainable mess. And I'm afraid that the solution is going to hurt. Not every sperm IS sacred.



I don't blame anyone for "wanting what we have", but I don't blame anyone for wanting to keep what they have either.

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Old 09-16-2013, 07:34 AM   #943 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
We have satellite data since 1979, and we have maps drawn by the Danes(?) for a long time before that.

The decadal average has been going down ever since 1979. The climate has been warming and the ice is melting more on average. What is so difficult to understand about this concept?

Climate is the long term trend; not the year to year changes.
And what do those earlier maps show and how are they put together ?
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:52 AM   #944 (permalink)
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What if?

The answer is not so obvious? We repeat the stuff the so called experts repeat but The experts avoid thier own facts. 100 years back we in America demolished the earths natural reflection layer of grass cover and planted rows over the top instead. We chopped down the trees and then replanted patches of grass where it diddnt belong. Then we invented Asphalt and covered " im guessing "1/300th more ground with it. ever walked across asphalt with bare feet in the summer?
Now Factor in that we are not alone in doing any of this the same is happening all over the world.
yeah I know theres so much more than that... does there really need to be?
We chop up the worlds thermal layer and blame it all on Grand Dads Pipe smoke???
Where I grew up Atlanta Ga. did also!
In 35 years Atl. slowly swept over us The forrests and craft lands were replaced with subdivisions and paved roads and giant parking lots.
The Heat was always bad as a kid but it is more so now and when I was a kid the nights were cooler mostly. Now the heat is constaant and oppresive.
my 2 cents.
 
Old 09-16-2013, 01:49 PM   #945 (permalink)
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The decadal average of the area of Arctic ice has been going down ever since 1979. The volume of Arctic ice is down more than 80% since 1980.

The climate has been warming and the ice is melting more on average. The only plausible cause for most of this is human's burning fossil fuels.

What is so difficult to understand about this?
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Old 09-16-2013, 02:06 PM   #946 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
The decadal average of the area of Arctic ice has been going down ever since 1979. The volume of Arctic ice is down more than 80% since 1980.

The climate has been warming and the ice is melting more on average. The only plausible cause for most of this is human's burning fossil fuels.

What is so difficult to understand about this?
That is why there are so many skeptics. The climate debate is full of over exaggerated claims on both sides, and it's hard to find any real data that isn't skewed or misleading. For example, the BBC was reporting in 2007 that by this summer the Arctic would be ice free. Yet this year the ice has rebounded 60% from the same time last year. Are fossil fuels the only plausible cause? You don't think that the earth has natural temperature and CO2 cycles that could explain the warming? How can you use ice data that has only been collected since 1979 as evidence? We don't know what happened before 1979, so talking about an 80% decline without any context is misleading.

There has also been a warming "pause" since 1997 that models did not predict, which completely contradicts many claims about how we have gone past the point of no return. There is also strong evidence that shows CO2 levels actually peak following warming.

There is much more evidence in favor of the man made global warming skeptics than you are prepared to give credit for. Closed-minded arguments are not going to help persuade anyone, and is one reason why public opinion about global warming has slipped over the years.

http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda...g-reihan-salam
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Old 09-16-2013, 03:54 PM   #947 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
The decadal average of the area of Arctic ice has been going down ever since 1979. The volume of Arctic ice is down more than 80% since 1980.

The climate has been warming and the ice is melting more on average. The only plausible cause for most of this is human's burning fossil fuels.

What is so difficult to understand about this?
1979 to now is nothing really in the history of climate.

So those melts reported in the 1920s then ?
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Old 09-16-2013, 04:05 PM   #948 (permalink)
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Just to muddy the waters further, CO2 actually escapes the atmosphere, like helium only slower. There will come a time, very far from now, when there will not be enough CO2 to support plant life, and you can figure out what happens then, and long before then.

Too Little CO2 To End Life On Earth | The Resilient Earth
 
Old 09-16-2013, 04:08 PM   #949 (permalink)
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There has also been a warming "pause" since 1997 that models did not predict...
According to a few (tens of) pages ago in this thread models were actually "pretty accurate" which of course is nonsense of the first order. Some clever people (including skeptics) have looked in detail at the models and have worked out why.

The real problem though is that "policy" is now being driven by these models and not by any real observed problems. There is no evidence of worse weather, or dangerous sea level rise, or a trend in droughts or floods or indeed anything else out of the ordinary.

But even if they are true, the cost of dealing with the impacts is far less than trying to prevent them - which of course (according to the OP) we can't any more.

Why is this so hard to understand, puzzles me.
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Old 09-16-2013, 04:11 PM   #950 (permalink)
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Just to muddy the waters furthe...
You are Suspect number... and I claim my 5.

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