Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-22-2012, 03:56 AM   #1 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Just joined and I'm not going to talk about an HHO generator

I realize HHO, brown gas, hydrogen generators don't work. But I am a little curious. Is there any benefit in the combustion to adding hydrogen or is all the claimed benefit from the HHO people from tricking sensors? I've read some articles about how it might help like the combustion of diesel like a CNG or LPG additive. I'm only asking for curiosity purposes, but if one were to use hydrogen like it was a propane injection system on a diesel would it improve mileage? Not taking into account the cost of hydrogen of course. Again I'm just curious about hydrogen actually burning in the engine, if at all.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 08-22-2012, 05:13 AM   #2 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Earth
Posts: 27

Breeze - '97 Plymouth Breeze
90 day: 23.1 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2
Thanked 16 Times in 8 Posts
NASA tested it, and injecting hydrogen into a piston engine does increase flame speed and increases efficiency slightly. Also, piston engines can burn hydrogen just like propane and CNG.

The problem is storing hydrogen to do it (and, buying hydrogen, since its not really in every store).

Borderline disclaimer for anyone seeing this: there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY you're gonna generate enough hydrogen from water on board a car while driving, the amount of hydrogen needed is immense.

But basically, in all the same ways injecting propane works, hydrogen would work too.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 05:36 AM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 328
Thanks: 11
Thanked 79 Times in 54 Posts
Send a message via MSN to markweatherill
Slightly off-topic, but in the age of airships, how was the hydrogen produced to fill them?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 06:09 AM   #4 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Philippines
Posts: 2,173
Thanks: 1,739
Thanked 589 Times in 401 Posts
Cracking it from gas. Was, and still is, cheaper than electrolyzing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 06:38 AM   #5 (permalink)
EcoModding Alien Observer
 
suspectnumber961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I flitter here and there
Posts: 547

highcountryexplorer - '86 Nissan 720 KC 4x4 ST with fiberglass cap
90 day: 21.78 mpg (US)

Elroy - '03 Ford Focus ZX3 w/Zetec DOHC engine
90 day: 32.89 mpg (US)
Thanks: 6
Thanked 78 Times in 65 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by eou_edu View Post
I realize HHO, brown gas, hydrogen generators don't work.
Realize = bought into the forum prejudice?

IMO HHO does work...likely more with diesels than with gas. Also probably not really worth the effort due to the complexity and maintenance required to run one...except on a big rig?
__________________
Carry on humans...we are extremely proud of you. ..................

Forty-six percent of Americans believe in the creationist view that God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years. GALLUP POLL
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 08:36 AM   #6 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 9,790

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 232
Thanked 3,202 Times in 2,516 Posts
The hydrogen gas present in a diesel will be consumed before the fuel ever gets injected.
The compression temperature in a diesel approces 1000'F as the piston nears Top Dead Center.
In my diesel it exceeds 1100'F due to higher than normal 22:1 compression.

On a diesel you are better off running straight water injection, it has proven to provide many benifets.
The best thing about water injection is you can get ahold of water pretty easy. I have found that about 1 out of 3 to 1 out of 4 large truck stops has a free water source.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 10:55 AM   #7 (permalink)
Aero Deshi
 
ChazInMT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL
Posts: 1,065

MagMetalCivic - '04 Honda Civic Sedan EX
Last 3: 34.25 mpg (US)
Thanks: 430
Thanked 668 Times in 357 Posts
Also keep in mind the Gasoline IS HYDROGEN!!!!!! People always seem to forget that the primary combustion is the H of the C8H10 (Octane) molecule which has 10 hydrogen atoms begging to be water. Everyone seems to think Gasoline is it's own element or something and "Adding Hydrogen" to it makes it better. It is Hydrogen. Coming up with some cockamamie contraption that uses a crap load of energy to "Help Out" is non-sense, diesel or gas.

So lets review, Gasoline and Diesel are Carbon atoms with Twice as many Hydrogen atoms stuck on them and that's it! No other atoms there except for some trace elements of Nitrogen and Oxygen which may be in additives.

Bottom line, you drive a hydrogen powered car.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 09:04 PM   #8 (permalink)
Intermediate EcoDriver
 
Mustang Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Northern Arizona - It's a DRY cold..
Posts: 671

Trigger - '07 Ford Mustang V6 Premium Coupe
Team Mustang
Sports Cars
90 day: 31.7 mpg (US)

Big Red (retired) - '89 Ford F-250 4wd Custom
90 day: 18.13 mpg (US)

Big Red II - '13 Ford F-150 FX4
Pickups
90 day: 18.88 mpg (US)
Thanks: 163
Thanked 129 Times in 102 Posts
Not long ago, someone posted that there are more hydrogen atoms in a gallon of gasoline than there are in a gallon of liquid hydrogen..
__________________
Fuel economy is nice, but sometimes I just gotta put the spurs to my pony!



Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguitarguy View Post
Just 'cuz you can't do it, don't mean it can't be done...
Quote:
Originally Posted by elhigh View Post
The presence of traffic is the single most complicating factor of hypermiling. I know what I'm going to do, it's contending with whatever the hell all these other people are going to do that makes things hard.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 11:21 AM   #9 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
euromodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 4,683

The SCUD - '15 Fiat Scudo L2
Thanks: 178
Thanked 649 Times in 514 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
I have found that about 1 out of 3 to 1 out of 4 large truck stops has a free water source.
I'd inject demineralised water though.

In regions with high levels of salts in the water, you really don't want to throw it into your engine.
__________________
Strayed to the Dark Diesel Side

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 09:17 PM   #10 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 9,790

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 232
Thanked 3,202 Times in 2,516 Posts
Duramax, cummins and powerstroke guys run tap water and don't have any problems, dont seem worried about it.

__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com