Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-11-2021, 11:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,336

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 172
Thanked 1,285 Times in 885 Posts
Kinetic Energy Storage

Energy Vault is going public on the NYSE. They are a new company building grid level energy storage using mechanical instead of chemical means. When there is surplus energy a crane stacks concrete blocks. When energy is needed the crane unstacks the blocks and recovers the potential energy stored in the block. Pretty cheap ($150 / kWh) and simple and they claim 85% efficiency. Same concept as pumped hydro but much smaller and not dependent on geography.



https://www.wsj.com/articles/renewab...ic-11631136600

(Print Friendly will get you past the paywall)

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JSH For This Useful Post:
redneck (09-11-2021)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 09-11-2021, 11:54 AM   #2 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 9,420

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.24 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 27.35 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,262
Thanked 3,585 Times in 2,678 Posts
$150/kWh is more expensive than battery solutions. Seems like a decent amount of maintenance too with bearings and cables that will need replacement.

What if towns just built twice as many water towers as they need and use half of the capacity as an electricity buffer? If adverse weather is likely, they could fill them to full and have double the water capacity they would otherwise have. Kill 2 stones with 1 bird.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
freebeard (09-11-2021)
Old 09-11-2021, 01:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,336

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 172
Thanked 1,285 Times in 885 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
$150/kWh is more expensive than battery solutions. Seems like a decent amount of maintenance too with bearings and cables that will need replacement.

What if towns just built twice as many water towers as they need and use half of the capacity as an electricity buffer? If adverse weather is likely, they could fill them to full and have double the water capacity they would otherwise have. Kill 2 stones with 1 bird.
The problem with water is the volume required. Water has a density of 1000 kg/m^3. Concrete has a density of 2400 kg/m^3 so you are getting 2.4 x more energy per volume with concrete. Pumped storage is about $260 per kWh for 100 MW.

Yes, this system is more expensive than just the batteries in a grid storage system but when you add the rest of the components you are double the cost of stacking concrete. LFP is about $350 / kWh for a 100 MW system battery system. Batteries also steadily degrade over time and have about a 20 year life before needed to be replaced.

https://www.pnnl.gov/sites/default/f...12-11-2020.pdf

No, replacing components on the crane system isn't free but they are using pretty standard off-the-shelf components from construction cranes.

Time will tell, Energy Vault is building some full size units now.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 01:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
High Altitude Hybrid
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Gunnison, CO
Posts: 834

Avalon - '13 Toyota Avalon HV
90 day: 40.45 mpg (US)

Prius - '06 Toyota Prius
Thanks: 464
Thanked 244 Times in 183 Posts
I wonder if anyone at home could just use water or concrete storage and how that would compare to battery.

The hard part would probably be the electronics required to control the thing.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 01:57 PM   #5 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
redneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SC Lowcountry
Posts: 1,608

Geo XL1 - '94 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Boat tails and more mods
90 day: 72.22 mpg (US)

Big, Bad & Flat - '01 Dodge Ram 3500 SLT
Team Cummins
90 day: 21.13 mpg (US)
Thanks: 206
Thanked 1,252 Times in 640 Posts
.

There are many different ways to mechanically store energy using weights.

Here’s one I’ve posted before.

https://aresnorthamerica.com/




>

.
__________________


Woke means you're a loser....everything woke turns to ****.

Donald J Trump 8/21/21




Disclaimer...

Iím not a climatologist, aerodynamicist, virologist, physicist, astrodynamicist or marine biologist..

But...

I play one on the internet.

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 02:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 9,420

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.24 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 27.35 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,262
Thanked 3,585 Times in 2,678 Posts
We need a space elevator, and when there is excess power the occupants travel up faster, and when there is a lack of power, they have to cut their space vacation short.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 02:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
redneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SC Lowcountry
Posts: 1,608

Geo XL1 - '94 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Boat tails and more mods
90 day: 72.22 mpg (US)

Big, Bad & Flat - '01 Dodge Ram 3500 SLT
Team Cummins
90 day: 21.13 mpg (US)
Thanks: 206
Thanked 1,252 Times in 640 Posts
.

Hereís another one.

Low cost per kWh.

https://www.gravitypower.net/




>

.
__________________


Woke means you're a loser....everything woke turns to ****.

Donald J Trump 8/21/21




Disclaimer...

Iím not a climatologist, aerodynamicist, virologist, physicist, astrodynamicist or marine biologist..

But...

I play one on the internet.

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 04:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 20,437
Thanks: 5,732
Thanked 6,660 Times in 5,378 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary
I wonder if anyone at home could just use water or concrete storage and how that would compare to battery.
I've had that thought, second-hand weight lifting weights on a flagpole.

Quote:
Here’s another one.
First time I saw that proposed, the rock piston was to be laser cut out of the hole itself.
__________________
.
Sandy Munro: Sacred cows make the best steak.
____________________

Stuff that works, stuff that holds up
The kind of stuff you don't hang on the wall
Stuff that's real, stuff you feel
The kind of stuff you reach for when you fall
Guy Clark -- Stuff That Works

____________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 05:02 PM   #9 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,336

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 172
Thanked 1,285 Times in 885 Posts
And another one.... Same concept but a single big weight in a mine shaft

https://gravitricity.com/

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 06:06 PM   #10 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 9,615

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 228
Thanked 3,138 Times in 2,457 Posts
It's the wall building machine.

__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com