Know Our History - Henry Ford on the American Experience

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I guess we need to decide what criteria we are thinking of; when I think of Ts I think of ultimate simplicity and ruggedness.

Currently, any vehicle matching the simplicity of a Model T would either be illegal or allowed only for military fleets

Well, recently I saw a Ford Model T central-door sedan, and its proportions resembled me the Transit Connect. We might also take into account that the T was pretty much a non-specialized transport vehicle, while newer vehicles usually compromise too much between cargo and passengers capacity. Maybe, the closest balance to the simplicity of a T and some modern standards would be the European Ford Courier, which was also available with the OHV Endura-E engine used in the Ford Ka, and is also the predecessor of the Transit Connect.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Yeah I saw that. I guess we need to decide what criteria we are thinking of;

Hammer -> nail head - what is the criteria - simplicity, MPG, lasts a long time, easy to fix, cheap to run, cheap to fix, availability, spares etc.

Also again - are we talking about a car with a long life in terms of production or a long life in terms of being used.

[NeilBlanchard]

Both points are important I think. Changes are for real improvements means that the car remains in production for a long time, because it is a good car made better and better over time. And that means it lasts longer and goes farther with less maintenance and repairs.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Both points are important I think. Changes are for real improvements means that the car remains in production for a long time, because it is a good car made better and better over time. And that means it lasts longer and goes farther with less maintenance and repairs.

The same for the Beetle, among other old compact cars.

BTW one good advantage from the body-on-frame/body-on-platform layout used in older vehicles is a relative flexibility to adapt newer and more efficient systems

[Arragonis]

The T and Beetle lasted a long time in production but both companies realised perhaps equally reluctantly that things had moved on and they had to be replaced if those companies were going to survive and grow.

Fill in a niche and you can go as long as you like - making your cars from wood even :

1954


2010

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

The T and Beetle lasted a long time in production but both companies realised perhaps equally reluctantly that things had moved on and they had to be replaced if those companies were going to survive and grow.

Fill in a niche and you can go as long as you like - making your cars from wood even :

1954


2010

Morgan is a good example, but not so much of a practical standpoint since they're not as versatile as a Model T or a Beetle were. Few people could give themselves the luxury of having a roadster as a daily-driver, since they don't provide enough space to haul the kids to the school and the groceries, among other usual needs.

[Arragonis]

How about the Renault 4 - simple, rugged, and in production for 30+ years.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhGmPmX0SB4&NR=1

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

How about the Renault 4 - simple, rugged, and in production for 30+ years.

I like the R4, too bad it would probably need too much weight added to meet the current standards

[Arragonis]

They did an expedition in the R4 from the bottom of America to the top (Argentina to Alaska) including unpaved and rough roads, rivers etc. What was more amazing was the cars were driven by Paris "models" and not endurance drivers.

Another R4 endurance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TviF7tnFYzM

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

They did an expedition in the R4 from the bottom of America to the top (Argentina to Alaska) including unpaved and rough roads, rivers etc.

Too bad newer entry-level cars hardly get some decent cross-country ability, which is still necessary in some under-developed countries. No wonder the Toyota Hilux is the market leader in many African countries...