Know Our History - Henry Ford on the American Experience

[NeilBlanchard]

This is an automotive history thread...

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

We are drifting again and I know this was originally intended as a US only thread about the T

American automotive culture shown itself not so supportive to extremely simple cars like the T anymore, as some overseas markets still are. Some folks would blame the so-called "planned obsolescence" as a reason for the shorter lifespan of newer platforms comparing to the Model T and its 19-year production term, and all the nowadays-frequent model-year updates, but the improvements regarding emissions and safety standards also have an important role on that matter. Europe after WW2 developed a different culture, more conservative regarding energy resources leading to smaller engines and more versatility to cope with the damaged roads at the time, which was followed by Africa and Latin America for budget reasons while the U.S. took a different path with its fish-tail Cadillacs. That's why it's easier to find vehicles technically comparable to the Model T in overseas markets than in America...

[radioranger]

My little ranger has very close to 400 k mile gets 25 mpg no matter how i drive it and is very easy to fix for the most part, the twin i beam suspension was a great very durable design and also easy to repair if need be, my 4 cyl all iron motor has a bit of a weakness in the head gaslet department but the exact same engine turbo'a and intercooled pushed the 88 t bird along at 137 mph and also around 25 mpg, I really think ford stopped making them because guys wouldnt replace them fast enough, after 97 they went to a ball joint front end but the trannys were great etc, eventually they became ford explorers the maligned scourge of the suburbs, however there were thousands running around the country loaded to the gill s with stuff going 80 mph on underinflated tires and even then not really that many had trouble, I say you can always tell a cars worth by the fact that even with 200 k miles on them people still think there worth three grand or more when they sell them. I have never passed a ford explorer or a jeep chereokee for that matter. , there always flying along, drive me crazy really ,

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Considering the long-term production and relative technical simplicity, a 4cyl Ranger was the closest to the Model T in the recent Ford range

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

American automotive culture shown itself not so supportive to extremely simple cars like the T anymore, as some overseas markets still are....

The US market is a seperate entity from the rest of the world IMHO - a lot of overseas cars "work" in the US but very few US market cars ("world cars" excepted and maybe some SUVs) succeed elsewhere - the noted exceptions have to be the T itself and the original Jeep.

The latter was deliberately designed to be useful overseas - the usage of poor fuel and a track width which matched standard rail widths so it could run on tracks where available.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

To make a modern days Model T, simple but still compliant to modern regulations, while not sacrificing its cross-country abilities so much, would throw the price to compact SUV standards. Makes me wonder why Renault doesn't introduce the Dacia Duster in the States, since could eventually do it rebadging as a Nissan. Ironically, the Duster is closer to the concept of a modern Model T than the comparable Ford product, the EcoSport...

Originally Posted by Arragonis

The US market is a seperate entity from the rest of the world IMHO - a lot of overseas cars "work" in the US but very few US market cars ("world cars" excepted and maybe some SUVs) succeed elsewhere - the noted exceptions have to be the T itself and the original Jeep.

The latter was deliberately designed to be useful overseas - the usage of poor fuel and a track width which matched standard rail widths so it could run on tracks where available.

Nowadays, the most notable difference is probably in regard to engines. While an European wouldn't really care about the amount of cylinders, and often not even for the displacement as long as it can provide a decent performance, the stereotypical American would want to slap the biggest V8 possible into anything, or a V6.

Some folks blame American cars for being "too big", but European and even Japanese automakers also had (and still have) their flagship full-size sedans. Well, a Cadillac with some 4-cyl Mercedes-Benz turbodiesel would be just perfect

About the early Jeep: its original concept lives more in a Suzuki Jimny than in a Wrangler, ironically.

[radioranger]

I forgot about another car which ford made, a bit of a sleeper eco car, my sister bought a new 88 mustang with a 5 speed and the 4 cylinder and regularly got over 35 mpg on the highway , with rear wheel drive simplicity sort of like my ranger with a much sleeker body and a hatchback to boot. I think they made them till 94 except after 88 they had 2 plugs per cylinder, any other cars ever do that in recent history? dont know of any

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by radioranger

I forgot about another car which ford made, a bit of a sleeper eco car, my sister bought a new 88 mustang with a 5 speed and the 4 cylinder and regularly got over 35 mpg on the highway , with rear wheel drive simplicity sort of like my ranger with a much sleeker body and a hatchback to boot.

Many folks don't agree so much, but due to the aerodynamic and light body I agree that a compact sportscar is a reasonable base for a mileage-oriented project. Well, a 'Stang with the 9-inch rear end is also easy and cheap to change the gear ratio...

[Arragonis]

Perfect base IMHO, The Honda CRX / CRZ spring to mind too as excellent examples too.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

A recently-introduced vehicle that could eventually fill some gaps that a new Model T would fit is the Chevrolet Spin.




It's roomy, cheap to manufacture, and has an outdated engine, but is the most cost-effective minivan available in Brazil nowadays

Since it shares the platform with the Sonic and the current 3rd-world Cobalt, it seems not hard to "federalize".