Go Back   EcoModder Forum > Off-Topic > The Lounge
Register Now
 Register Now
 


Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-29-2013, 06:18 AM   #51 (permalink)
radioranger
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canton CT
Posts: 442
Thanks: 140
Thanked 44 Times in 33 Posts
I think I would nominate the ford crown vicky , made for many years, incredibly durable and engine wise very servicable, water pump change, plugs, alternator starter etc, and for the last 18 years of production probably the best tranny ever. big car true but efficient safe people mover, I think they stopped making them when they realized the govt wasnt going to buy them after they didnt take the bailout money .

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 03-29-2013, 07:15 AM   #52 (permalink)
The PRC.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Elsewhere.
Posts: 5,304
Thanks: 285
Thanked 536 Times in 384 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Too bad newer entry-level cars hardly get some decent cross-country ability, which is still necessary in some under-developed countries. No wonder the Toyota Hilux is the market leader in many African countries...
They still make (or maybe made) some older designs in Africa - the FIAT 131 and the Pug 504 pickup were being made a couple of years ago.

Yep, The Hilux - Interesting its not a Land Rover any more, and hasn't been a Jeep since WW2
__________________
[I]So long and thanks for all the fish.[/I]
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 02:55 AM   #53 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 12,923
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,697 Times in 1,515 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arragonis View Post
They still make (or maybe made) some older designs in Africa - the FIAT 131 and the Pug 504 pickup were being made a couple of years ago.
There was a Turkish derivative of the Fiat 131 license-made in Ethiopia, but that one had body panels from the Fiat Regatta over the 131 floorpan. The 504 lasted until 2005 in Nigeria.


Quote:
Yep, The Hilux - Interesting its not a Land Rover any more, and hasn't been a Jeep since WW2
Land Rovers got too sophisticated, Jeeps too at a certain degree, while Toyota still makes some lower-grade versions of the Hilux. Even the ancient 5L-E engine is still available for the Hilux, the Fortuner and the LC Prado in some African countries.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 03:42 AM   #54 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 12,923
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,697 Times in 1,515 Posts
Getting back on thread, regarding Ford: its better (at least for me) attempts to make a real people's car were some of its British models, such as the E494A Anglia.

Yesterday when I was walking my dog I even spotted an E494A Panel Van, altough it now has a Brazilian Chevette drivetrain
http://fotolog.com/cripple_rooster - blog oficial: Fordson E494A Panel Van


Crappy cellphone pictures were what was possible to take, since I left the camera at home.

Well, in spite of America's obsession for the biggest and more gas-guzzling cars ever, I honestly believe some of the old British Fords could have been a good option back in their days.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 07:26 AM   #55 (permalink)
The PRC.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Elsewhere.
Posts: 5,304
Thanks: 285
Thanked 536 Times in 384 Posts
The Ford Pop was a cheap car for the UK, the only one under £100 for quite a while. Just like Ford in the US though, they tried to keep it going for arguably too long, this was still being made in the 1950s



It had quite a few compromises - the weezy sidevalve, 3 speed gearbox and solid axle suspension (the front suspension could be upgraded using a Bellamy swing axle conversion).

The biggest limitation was the manifold driven wipers - the fast you went, the slower they wiped

The same drivetrain was kept weezing away under a new body right into the 1960s well after the Mini was being made.

__________________
[I]So long and thanks for all the fish.[/I]
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 01:51 AM   #56 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 12,923
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,697 Times in 1,515 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arragonis View Post
The Ford Pop was a cheap car for the UK, the only one under £100 for quite a while. Just like Ford in the US though, they tried to keep it going for arguably too long, this was still being made in the 1950s

Its design was really showing its age at that time, but it doesn't really look bad for the time. The Citroën 2CV didn't look so much more modern, for example.


Quote:
It had quite a few compromises - the weezy sidevalve, 3 speed gearbox and solid axle suspension (the front suspension could be upgraded using a Bellamy swing axle conversion).
It would probably fare pretty decently with the 1.1L OHV Kent engine, even with the 3-speed transmission. Regarding solid axles, it sure limited the comfort and handling at a certain point, but as long as it was still cost-effective and reliable to face some damaged roads in the post-war, it wasn't the worst setup.


Quote:
The biggest limitation was the manifold driven wipers - the fast you went, the slower they wiped
Vacuum-driven wipers are really quite weird, altough if it had some more accurate speed control it could be not bad at all since it would decrease the load on the electrical system...
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 06:07 AM   #57 (permalink)
The PRC.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Elsewhere.
Posts: 5,304
Thanks: 285
Thanked 536 Times in 384 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Its design was really showing its age at that time, but it doesn't really look bad for the time. The Citroën 2CV didn't look so much more modern, for example.
Its more about what is underneath IMHO, the postwar Morris 8 was given the "Airflow" treatment after the war too.



but it is also a weezy sidevalve 3-speeder. The Morris 8 engine was inflicted on the earliest Morris Minors before someone saw sense and moved to the OHV A-Series from Austin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
It would probably fare pretty decently with the 1.1L OHV Kent engine, even with the 3-speed transmission.
If you want to use the OHV Kent (or even the OHC Duratec 8v / RoCam) then it would make sense to use the gearboxes built for them 4sp/5sp that adapt a rather cranky 3sp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Regarding solid axles, it sure limited the comfort and handling at a certain point, but as long as it was still cost-effective and reliable to face some damaged roads in the post-war, it wasn't the worst setup.
I think you would have to struggle to find a setup with fewer virtues except cheapness of manufacture and (perhaps) ruggedness. e.g. quite a few soldiers in WW2 suffered extended injuries being evacuated by Jeep due to the bouncy ride (my grandfather was a medic in WW2).
__________________
[I]So long and thanks for all the fish.[/I]
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 06:45 PM   #58 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 12,923
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,697 Times in 1,515 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arragonis View Post
If you want to use the OHV Kent (or even the OHC Duratec 8v / RoCam) then it would make sense to use the gearboxes built for them 4sp/5sp that adapt a rather cranky 3sp.
No wonder the few remaining Anglias and Populars back here were usually retrofitted with 5-speed Opel gearboxes. Nowadays some can be found even with Chinese copies of Suzuki gearboxes in Uruguay...


Quote:
I think you would have to struggle to find a setup with fewer virtues except cheapness of manufacture and (perhaps) ruggedness. e.g. quite a few soldiers in WW2 suffered extended injuries being evacuated by Jeep due to the bouncy ride (my grandfather was a medic in WW2).
Believe me, I still see many folks advocating for solid axles. Regarding 4WD vehicles, many such as the Land Rover Defender and the Brazilian Agrale Marruá have coil springs instead of the leaf-springs used in the Jeep, which lead to some comfort improvements.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 03:17 PM   #59 (permalink)
The PRC.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Elsewhere.
Posts: 5,304
Thanks: 285
Thanked 536 Times in 384 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
No wonder the few remaining Anglias and Populars back here were usually retrofitted with 5-speed Opel gearboxes. Nowadays some can be found even with Chinese copies of Suzuki gearboxes in Uruguay...
GM products mostly went FWD here (except for the BIG executive models) after about 1983 - the demise of the Chevette. The Crapi had a 5sp gearbox which fits with an adaptor (the Crapi 1.6 5sp had a 1.6 Pinto boat anchor in it).

On reflection the big advantage of the OHV Kent / Valencia unit over the Duratec 8v OHC unit is the lack of a timing belt, it uses a chain. I would put up with changing the belt if it meant it was less rattly though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Believe me, I still see many folks advocating for solid axles. Regarding 4WD vehicles, many such as the Land Rover Defender and the Brazilian Agrale Marruá have coil springs instead of the leaf-springs used in the Jeep, which lead to some comfort improvements.
Some commercials still have solid front axles and RWD, can't see the point in normal cars though. The LR Defender has coils, the LR Defender Santana (made in Spain) still has (or had until quite recently) leaf springs although it did have the S3 / Defender body on top. The new one still has leaf springs and a snappy new body

__________________
[I]So long and thanks for all the fish.[/I]
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 04:57 PM   #60 (permalink)
The PRC.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Elsewhere.
Posts: 5,304
Thanks: 285
Thanked 536 Times in 384 Posts
We are drifting again and I know this was originally intended as a US only thread about the T, and mr Rooster nominated the Ford Sidevalve but I would like to nominate the "most influential Ford" title (even if "outside the US" is added to this) to the Mk1 Cortina :



I know it looks, and is very ordinary but please bear with me.

The reason the T succeeded was the design brief - cheap to make, cheap to buy, simple to use, cheap to fix and so on. Ford didn't really care too much if it lasted because he was happy to sell you another one. The innovation in the T was not in the T itself, it was in the process.

Well, the Cortina is the same - for me. In 1959 Alec Issigonis (my login namesake) introduced the Mini for BMC. A couple of years later he also introduced the 1100 - effectively a big Mini. Ford of Britain were struggling having introduced the Ford Classic - a kind of mini Fairlane...



Although it was a decent car the styling bombed big time, and at the same time BMC introduced radical new technology - Ford of Britain was under pressure to go with FWD and do the same but they could see the problems.

Instead they imported the project management techniques of Ford USA but employed them with a monk-like zeal, far stricter than the Ford USA operation did at the time. They focussed these on the "Consul Classic" replacement which was urgent. Each engineering team had a strict timetable and budget to work to. If they wanted to add something new they had to cost it and save the same money elsewhere to have it included. They also had to keep to the timetable. The result was the Cortina went from drawing board to showroom in about 3 years. It also meant that Ford knew exactly how much each car cost to make and how much profit each one earned.

BMC at the same time were innovating themselves (with Arragonis at the wheel...) into ruin.

The Cortina as introduced was a conventional RWD car, live axle, leaf springs. It also had flow-through ventilation (also imported from the US) and better steering than the Consul (above) - but essentially the mechanical bits were the same. Compare it to the 1100, the Cortina was :

- Bigger
- Had larger engines, better performance, better economy
- More equipment
- More space for passengers
- More space for luggage
- More reliable.

The 1100 was

- Smaller, but arguably with more interior space (but you would struggle to notice)
- A massive 1098cc engine rising to a heady 1275cc later (the Cortina went up to 1.6 litres)
- Less equipment as it cost more
- Less space for luggage
- Less reliable as anything radically new tends to be.

Also as mentioned Ford knew exactly how much money they made of every Cortina sold, BMC refused to accept that they were losing money on every Mini and 1100 they made even when Ford told them in secret about it.

The results ?

Ford went on to be very conservative, the FWD German Taunus model was eventually replaced by the Pinto based, UK designed, RWD live axle Cortina Mk3 rebadged. Ford persisted with the RWD live axle Escort even after the Mk1 VW Golf and Alfasud appeared.

Ford also went on to be very commercially successful - the Cortina took Ford from No2 in the UK to No1 which they kept until the 2000s, no2 in Europe.

The Cortina begat the Lotus Cortina (more or less hand-made by Lotus but still made Ford money), begat Ford into European racing which resulted in the DFV - the best F1 engine ever. It also created the Capri (the "European Mustang") which made even more money.

BMC died, merged with Triumph and Rover to make BL, and then died again and shrank to become Austin Rover, shrank to become Rover group and finally died completely in 2005. The Mini lived until 2000.

__________________
[I]So long and thanks for all the fish.[/I]
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com