LED not that efficient.

[samwichse]

Again, that's 100 lumens/watt omnidirectional. Not delivered lumens.

We are replacing our fluorescent tubes in growth chambers with LED full spectrum to significant energy savings for the same or greater output.

I can't post proprietary data here, unfortunately.

[oil pan 4]

Have to be careful with those LEDs, the stuff coming out of China they will just stamp a number on a box to move product. The type of complaints where the LEDs deliver less light because they stamped an assumption on the box or they used more power because of cheap power supplies.

[samwichse]

The units we're buying are warrantied for 5 years and rated at 45k hours. Which is good, since they'll be running 14-16 hours daily.

[Crashy]

I've sold $2m of LED over the last 8 years.
Lumen output is not the way to compare one bulb to another. You need to measure the lux falling onto the objects in the room. Leds are directional which means less lumens required to give the same lux. The purpose of a bulb is not to have you stare directly at it and be blinded...the purpose is to illuminate objects you want to see.
6000k is daylight (literally) so if you prefer 3000k it's because you are used to lousy yellow distorted light which decreases color depth, contrast and perceived brightness.
A T5 does not produce white light, it produces UV (and infrared) which gets converted to white light through the phosphorus (and a great deal of IR and UV escape the tube). This requires a gas to be HEATED. Infrared is the primary wavelength with UV being secondary. Obviously this is very inefficient.
I call bs on 100lm/w.

Leds ARE more efficient because their primary wavelength is already the required wavelength, no lossy conversion is required. No UV is emmited out of the bulb and very little infrared, which is easier on the eyes.
Early leds did produce UV which was filtered through a phosphorus dome. I have not seen these in 6 years, and only at the bottom end of the market. If that's what you want to buy I have no sympathy for you.

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by Crashy

6000k is daylight (literally) so if you prefer 3000k it's because you are used to lousy yellow distorted light which decreases color depth, contrast and perceived brightness.

I prefer yellow light because I only use my interior lights after the sun sets, and reduction in blue light as bedtime approaches helps me sleep at night.

[oil pan 4]

LEDs don't produce white light either so I don't know what you are talking about there. Virtually all "white" LEDs create blue and/or UV and use phosphorescent material to make the light whiter. The only time you get the color of light created from the LED is if you want a specific color. You can get white LED light by combining red, blue and yellow but this appears to be very uncommon for making white light for residential/consumer and commercial applications.
Do you not understand how these work?
It looks to me like you don't understandwhat you are talking about, yet again.

Also how am I to compare room lit lux value of product that is still in a box on a store shelf to another product on the shelf, then compare those to what I already have? Sounds like "you have to buy it to find out" marketing BS to me.

I wasn't measuring lumens per watt I was measuring lumens per volt•amp which takes into account power supply inefficiencys which is where cheap LEDs lose big time.
Industrial commercial florescent light ballasts typically run about a .99 power factor. Cheap consumer ballasts run a much lower power factor, putting the lumens per volt•amp on par with cheap LEDs.

The T5 tubes typically don't make 100 lumens per watt, they make between 92 for high output and 106 to 111 for standard output on high efficiency ballast.

LED chips by them selves are very efficient for a single color, 150 to 200 lumens per watt are common now, with around 346 lumens per watt being 100% theorized efficiency for green light. But they can't come any where near that on white LEDs because, blue and UV light used to make white LED lights tends to be less efficient than other colors, phosphorescent limitations, other quantum physics level limitations only discovered only discovered after people tried first making very high intensity LED chips and the nature of the cheap garbage coming out of China.
I'm seeing LEDs over here that typically do between 50 and 65 lumens per volt•amp on the cheap ones and between 80 to 100 lumens per volt•amp on the good ones which are usually more than double the price than that of the cheap ones.
Still this is a big improvement over compact florescent which was only doing around 35 lumens per volt•amp.

Originally Posted by Crashy

I've sold $2m of LED over the last 8 years.
Lumen output is not the way to compare one bulb to another. You need to measure the lux falling onto the objects in the room. Leds are directional which means less lumens required to give the same lux. The purpose of a bulb is not to have you stare directly at it and be blinded...the purpose is to illuminate objects you want to see.
6000k is daylight (literally) so if you prefer 3000k it's because you are used to lousy yellow distorted light which decreases color depth, contrast and perceived brightness.
A T5 does not produce white light, it produces UV (and infrared) which gets converted to white light through the phosphorus (and a great deal of IR and UV escape the tube). This requires a gas to be HEATED. Infrared is the primary wavelength with UV being secondary. Obviously this is very inefficient.
I call bs on 100lm/w.

Leds ARE more efficient because their primary wavelength is already the required wavelength, no lossy conversion is required. No UV is emmited out of the bulb and very little infrared, which is easier on the eyes.
Early leds did produce UV which was filtered through a phosphorus dome. I have not seen these in 6 years, and only at the bottom end of the market. If that's what you want to buy I have no sympathy for you.

[samwichse]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Most LEDs create UV and use phosphorescent material to make the light whiter. The only time you get the color of light created from the LED is if you want a specific color. You can get white LED light by combining red, blue and yellow but this appears to be very uncommon for making white light for residential/consumer and commercial applications.
Do you not understand how these work?
It looks to me like you don't understandwhat you are talking about.

This was already covered earlier in the thread. That was old tech. Yellow top leds = blue, not UV, diodes. UV is not used anymore, it is less efficient and more expensive at this point.

[oil pan 4]

There are still tons of older tech LEDs still in use.
I have some that are coming up on their 7 year mark.
These things refuse to die, but I also have most of mine on hand timers or motion sensors so it's rare that they stay on for more than an hour or 2 at a time.
The blue and UV ones also made extremely blue irritating light. I do like the newer tech better.

[oil pan 4]

The new stuff appears to be making white light at around 300 lumens per watt.
Using cheap power supplies that might roughly double the current efficiency standard.

I saw that the local lowes was totally changing over there entire LED lighting isle. I thought the new tech was out.
Nope, as far as I can tell they changed vendors and went with cheaper even less efficient junk.

[Crashy]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

You can get white LED light by combining red, blue and yellow but this appears to be very uncommon for making white light for residential/consumer and commercial applications.
Do you not understand how these work?
It looks to me like you don't understandwhat you are talking about, yet again.

Clever, you cut and paste from someone who corrected you earlier in the thread and try to make it sound like it was your knowledge all along. Guess you are hoping people didn't read the rest of the thread. Your comments are rich, you have been corrected so many times in this thread I've lost count. If anyone doesn't know what they are talking about, it's YOU

Is it necessary to be a condescending, arrogant know-it-all in every thread you comment in?