Less Meat!

[Formula413]

Originally Posted by IndyIan

I'm not going to defend the mainstream meat industry, I have ethical problems with it as well, but there more alternatives all the time to industrial chicken, and feedlot beef.
We have goats and chickens who get to do what goats and chickens are meant to do. Graze, sleep in the sun, we even take our goat herd for browsing trips through the woods. They browse like deer and have a great time. We still will eat them though, otherwise they are expensive pets with no purpose.
I'd much rather do this than support the over processed veggie food industry. I like my foods to have only ingredients I can pronounce, not 17 compounds trying to simulate something else...
The milk I drink in the morning has one ingredient, milk, from Wendy(our dairy goat). And the chicken I had for dinner was, a chicken. That grew up eating bugs and plants off my front lawn.
I doubt any soy "milk" or veggie "meat" could be any less damaging to the environment or healthier for you.
There are huge companies with big advertising budgets pushing veggie food as healthier, just like there was for hydrogenated vegetable oils, and I think eventually most synthetic food will be shown to be not better for you.

People in France eat way more animal fats, drink more but on average are much healthier than North Americans? How can this be?!
Maybe because they only eat stuff they can pronounce.
Ian

I'm not sure you understood what I meant by ethical. No living creature is going to lose it's freedom or life so I can eat.

Originally Posted by MazdaMatt

I take offense when i see something labelled bacon that is not from the flesh of a pig. You can shape your veggies in the form of thin brown strips, you can cover them in whatever combination of veggie grease makes them seem almost like some semblance of bacon, but it IS NOT BACON and please don't call it that. That goes for turkey and chicken too.

I'll call it whatever I want, and continue to enjoy eating it. Thanks for the suggestion though.

[MazdaMatt]

Don't worry, that was just a little soap-boxing by a bacon lover.... but if that "stuff" was actually any good, don't you think it would deserve its own name? Why must it bite off a name from a dearly loved and world renowned delicacy? Call it "veggie strips" or something

[Formula413]

Most people who are vegetarian or vegan now probably haven't always been, myself included. But people grow up eating certain foods and acquire a taste for them. It's nice to have something that approximates the taste and texture of those foods. Trying new things is cool too, but I really like being able to eat burgers, sausages and such. The bacon I tried is pretty good, but pricey, and the texture is not as realistic as other meat substitutes I've tried.

I forgot one item on my list: Eggnog!!! They call it "Holly Nog" and it's made with soymilk. No idea how they make it taste so much like eggnog. It's not as thick and creamy, but the flavor is right on.

[i_am_socket]

Originally Posted by Formula413

I'm not sure you understood what I meant by ethical. No living creature is going to lose it's freedom or life so I can eat.

No living creature, eh? Decided on the all Twinkie diet then? Ain't nothing natural in there

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted by Formula413

I'm not sure you understood what I meant by ethical. No living creature is going to lose it's freedom or life so I can eat.

Monoculture fields of soybeans and corn aren't planted on the moon yet. And I doubt you live and work on the moon either. We all kill lots of creatures for less important things than eating.
It's good of you to think about minimizing this but I might argue my pasture and hayfield allow far more life to exist than a round up ready soybean field. Mice, insects, hawks, coyotes, deer, all use it nearly as much as my goats and chickens.
Which supports more life do you think?


It's your choice to eat vegan and that's fine but I'm not ready to give you the moral high ground just yet.
Ian

[MazdaMatt]

Ian - i never thought of that. Great point. That prarie land is practially barren except for the man-made crop. Do you seriously live on that beautiful farm... jealous.

[ATaylorRacing]

As long as you don't try to force your beliefs on others you are entitled to your own views....however, the best T-shirt that I ever had said "I DID NOT GET TO THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN JUST TO BECOME A VEGETARIAN!"

[IndyIan]

No, its not my farm, its actually Joel Salatin's farm. Polyface, Inc.
We pretty much subscribe to his farming practices though, his ideas make the most sense of any sustainable farming and food production system I've ever heard of. Right now we have 12 goats and 80 chickens but we are planning to get a bit bigger every year, trying to farm like Joel does.

The first picture is our pasture area a few years ago before we built the house, the grass is a bit shorter now and there is some electric fencing but it pretty much looks the same. Second picture has Q(big goat), Peggy(little goat), and Suzie, one of our livestock guardian dogs, and me in the "barn yard" two years ago.
Ian

p.s. I should add that its entirely possible to support local food systems being a vegan, you won't be eating synthetic "meat" but probably much better food for you and your landscape. I'm just saying that if you are a factory farm vegan, you aren't quite as earth friendly as could be and maybe less earth friendly than some omnivores.

[blueflame]

Very very valid points around the ethical question of vegan vs homestead meat and animal products, and personal and collective carbon footprints. I feel that veganism is an inner city lifestyle/perversion, where people cant keep their own animals, go fishing/hunting, or usually being younger people, are idealistic and wanting to make a difference. Good.

At a biochemical level, to ingest animal flesh, fats and diary versus foods and fats that dissolve easily, you know, like being able to wash the dishes clean without hot water and detergent....is a simpler clearer area of thought. Feeling lighter with more energy is what I have recently experienced, but I was eating a lot of meat and dairy before. Mind you if I was too thin, meat would give me energy....

Global economy and future sustainability depend on reform in meat and diary industries. Neurosis are endemic within a factory farm, and many humans too are a factory farmed piece of meat within a national economy.

Leonardo da Vinci, Nicola Tesla, Gandi, Emmerson, Carl Lewis and Pamela Anderson?? to name a few famous vegos.

My personal take is that the car is like the buck board without the horse, schools are like they were in Victorian times, medicine, hospitals and peoples health are getting worse...we really need a quantum leap in consciousness...........I dunno...

Maybe its like that movie Black Robe, when the priest got a warring tribe(Huron?) to lay down there weapons and be peaceful etc etc. They were soon invaded and slaughtered by their neigbouring barbaric hordes. India has a warrior class within the cast system that are allowed to eat meat, the Sikh, bigger and stronger then vego Indians.

If cities decentralized we could grow our own, never commute to work, or need a car (sob), and know our neighbours. Offices and factories could be reduced by 99%, and with a bit of luck I could have more than one wife and never have to go to church.

[NiHaoMike]

Originally Posted by dcb

I have not heard a good argument that poking a deer to death with a sharpened stick is anywhere near as humane as killing it quickly with a slug.

No matter how you kill it, each deer hunted is one less hazard on the roads.