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Old 08-12-2013, 11:23 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SentraSE-R View Post

Once upon a time, we could probably ride a horse to the next town with some reasonable expectation of privacy, but now we live in a world where felons with Uzis and MAC-10s gun down cops from inside tinted windows of SUVs. The license plate readers and database technology that prompted this thread didn't exist 10 years ago.

What is DHS' justification for random searches of private aircraft? I"m sure you didn't just consent to such an unconstitutional search.
Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware | Pew Social & Demographic Trends



No offense but Uzis and MAC-10 like weapons have been publicly available for literally several of my lifetimes.

In the 1920's automatic weapons (yes they did exist tommy) were used against cops from "tinted" windows at various times

Using state of fear crap as justification "which likely originates from the government alone" is invalid as no actual threats "justify" anything.
As a society we can choose to make things that are unjust and unlawfull legal all we want but then all we have are unjust and unlawfull citizens; we all then become criminals and need to do criminal things to function within the resulting society.

The point of law is not for justification or a reaction, it is to provide as fair of a process as we can and remove corruption, arrogance, fear, graft, greed, bias, power and evil out of decisions as much as possible.

If as a society we function using corruption, fear, graft, greed, good ol boy networks, power, bias and evil, as our motivations the only conclusion is that we get more of the above.

Following this, just because I have no expectation of privacy in a public place, I also should have no expectation of the opposite either. Whether or not should be based on behavior and circumstance, making it procedure to do something that not only wastes time and resources but is morally wrong; only opens the door to further corruption, arrogance, fear, graft, greed and evil. And lets put it straight, spying on normal citizens in day to day life is ALWAYS morally wrong without cause, any events not directly related to that person are NEVER justification.

What is more effective? A friendly police officer visible in a public place here and there or a silent invisible hand? Symbols aren't affective if they aren't seen and good people who think they are invisible and operating unilaterally will do things that no person no matter how good or evil would ever do. Taken past this point, what does it symbolize if EVERYONE gets searched by a troop of "friendly" police officers? What does that symbolize? What feelings does it instill? What purpose does it serve? Who does it serve?

When you procedurize judgement and fear into harmless day to day life you are well on your way to a closing society. You are well on your way of making innocent acts criminal to justify the existance of the force.

Put simply no society is capable of handling the problem of "escalation". Government (and the people within it) are incapable of escaping corruption, fear, graft, arrogance/power, greed and evil; especially if they are required to escalate along with the so called "criminals". Allowing them to escalate only results in more escalation on both sides and immoral behavior on both sides and increasing fear.

Eventually normal people will find a line in the sand, I am certain you will too, when you literally run into something so haneous you can't accept it occuring anymore, hopefully we can all wake up and stand against arrogance, ignorance and evil before it is too late.
When the good guys and bad guys do the same things which is which?

The only people hurt in escalation are normal people, the only people found guilty, are normal people.

The criminal will usually get through regardless of the survalience and all the loss of rights and moral loss.

The wrong people win.

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Old 08-13-2013, 09:47 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SentraSE-R View Post

1) What is DHS' justification for random searches of private aircraft? (not involved in international travel)
2) I"m sure you didn't just consent to such an unconstitutional search.

1) Drugs, illegal exports, illegal imports (people) or any other excuse they can come up with.

2) Yup, I did that time and I am not proud of it. The officer was amazingly belligerent, lied about his authority, and started cutting open boxes of leather with his knife. Damaging some of the leather.

I then ran into the office, printed up the bill of rights, highlighted the 4th amdt, and handed it to him. His face got red and he became even more disagreeable. He eventually left, drove down the ramp, half way across the airport, he slammed on his brakes, spun around and came screaming back. Asking for copies of all my identification.

My co-worker (ex army ranger, and a bit hot headed) was so angry, he was quite ready to do something quite drastic, and I do think he came close. I had to manage him too. It was not a good situation.

Next time, if I am free to go, that's what I'm doing. Getting away from the Nazi's is priority number 1.

Let's put this clearly, there is no up-side for me. Only risk. There is risk when ever a deadly weapon is drawn, there is risk of a trumped up violation, there is risk of delay, there is risk of loss of airman certificates, there is risk of incarceration, there is risk of expense.

Freedom and Liberty are what matters.

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