Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-12-2008, 03:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
Veggiedynamics
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Alexandria, MN
Posts: 684

Volt12 - '12 Chevy Volt base
Thanks: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts
Warm air intake? how about warm fuel?

the idea behind warm air intake is the fuel atomizes better, any one thought about warming fuel before its used by the motor?

This is how vegetable oil conversions thin the oil out for injection so it atomizes better.. they run the oil through heat exchangers that warm the veggie oil up to coolant temp..

Any thought or any one try it?

__________________

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 05-12-2008, 03:21 PM   #2 (permalink)
Dartmouth 2010
 
SVOboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hanover, NH
Posts: 6,447

Vegan Powa! - '91 Honda CRX DX
Team Honda
90 day: 66.52 mpg (US)
Thanks: 92
Thanked 122 Times in 90 Posts
Send a message via AIM to SVOboy Send a message via MSN to SVOboy Send a message via Yahoo to SVOboy
I don't really buy the atomization bit for warm air intake. The real reason it works on some cars is because the ECU leans out the fuel mix to compensate for the lower oxygen content in the hot air.

That said, there've been a lot of "hot fuel mods" out there but I've never been convinced by one.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 03:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 531
Thanks: 11
Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts
I think there is depending on the circumstances. Diesel absolutely, gasoline in cold weather possibly, but gains would be less than diesel. I want to heat the fuel lines with electricity, does anybody have an idea of a product that works off 12V that I can wrap around a fuel line. I do not want to just wrap wire around my lines.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 03:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,203

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,501
Thanked 2,585 Times in 1,553 Posts
The Matrix/Corolla/Vibe/Celica (1ZZ engine) fuel rail is tucked in close to the engine with insulation around it. This is the first production fuel injected engine I've seen heat fuel. But, I'd have to say it'll work on some engine and not on others. Any engines designed close to the knock limit may not like warm fuel. So, its going to be one of those hit or miss things.

Check out post #27 here for pictures: http://forum.ecomodder.com/showthrea...5.html?p=22861
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 03:37 PM   #5 (permalink)
Veggiedynamics
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Alexandria, MN
Posts: 684

Volt12 - '12 Chevy Volt base
Thanks: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts
If your going to heat the fuel why use electric? causes more electrical load on your car, use that waste heat the motor makes so well, do a coolant exchanger.. can be as simple as a copper or aluminum pipe with-in a larger rubber heater hose. Thats how us Veggie Oil burners do it usually, or you can by small flat plate heat exchangers to do the same thing.

The ICE wastes so much energy as heat its ridiculous.. use it..

One other i though i has was a peltiere cooler type of device, there make ones that generate power from heat sources too, a big aray could replace your alternator.. no load , and recapturing that waste heat.
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 03:45 PM   #6 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 531
Thanks: 11
Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts
Ebacherville,
Thanks for the suggestion but not going to happen at least right now while inder warranty. I want to do this on a diesel and I regularly see -15C start ups in the winter and I want something more instantaineous and diesels do not have an abundance of waste heat in the cold either. Also increased load is the best way to warm up a diesel in the cold so it is not as bad it seems.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 03:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
Pokémoderator
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,864

1999 Saturn SW2 - '99 Saturn SW2 Wagon
Team Saturn
90 day: 40.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 439
Thanked 530 Times in 356 Posts
ebacherville -

I think this works, but you need to design a system that has discreet control over the fuel temp, especially in gassers. If the gasoline gets too hot, you can experience vapor lock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapour_lock). The "no cost" way to heat the fuel is to use the coolant hose as a heater, but that means you lose the discreet control I was talking about.

Here is one (for diesels) that uses engine coolant :

IN-LINE FUEL WARMERS
http://www.arctic-fox.com/sitepages/pid43.php


Here is another electric powered one for diesels that I would be terrified to use on gassers :

HotlineŽ Electric In-Line Fuel Heater
http://www.arctic-fox.com/sitepages/pid20.php


CarloSW2
__________________

What's your EPA MPG? Go Here and find out!
American Solar Energy Society
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 03:52 PM   #8 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 531
Thanks: 11
Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts
Thats exactly what I wanted, thanks Carlos
Hope the price is reasonable.

Edit: Sorry its close to what I want, I am looking for something to wrap around steel lines, I dont want to do intrusive mods right now.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 03:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
MP$
 
diesel_john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 595
Thanks: 5
Thanked 19 Times in 14 Posts
Send a message via MSN to diesel_john
Smile

the fuel really can't get to the engine without getting warmed in a diesel or a gas. With gas engines warm fuel is actually a problem because it recirculated back to the tank causing higher vapor pressures in the tank. gasoline can slowly escape from the tank unless everything is perfect, thereby actually decreasing your fuel mileage before it ever gets to your fuel meter. this is not as much a problem for the diesel which can sit in an open bucket for month. with gasoline there is fuel lost before it ever gets to your car also. i would hate to think how much gasoline is lost before it gets to the engine.

there is web site in England i think where a gentleman does test all these types of ideas and product gimmicks. I did ask him specificly about this very question and he assured me it would not help for gas engines and went through all reasons why. you should be able to find a thread on this site about it. now if your an ice road trucker obviously your out there. out there.

Last edited by diesel_john; 05-12-2008 at 04:11 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 04:06 PM   #10 (permalink)
Veggiedynamics
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Alexandria, MN
Posts: 684

Volt12 - '12 Chevy Volt base
Thanks: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts
if your looking for a electric solution to wrap around steel lines, the veggie world uses stainless steeel welder wire, there are people in the veggie world that sell them there usualy called "injection line heaters" there just a certain length of stainless steel wire feed welder wire that makes a certain AMP load then there insulated in special high temp heat insulation and wrapped around the injection lines on the diesel engine. There usually cheap.. under $50 for 4 or 5 of them.. you can make them your self even cheaper.

As for vapor lock, The engine coolant hopefully would be cool enough to not lock it, you could use a automatic valve that coupled to a temp sensor to regulat the temps.

__________________

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Comparing Warm Air Intakes (WAI) & Cold Air Intakes (CAI) toomuch EcoModding Central 27 11-20-2022 04:24 PM
Cold air VS Warm Air Intakes - what's the difference? deadman1474 EcoModding Central 63 03-22-2019 09:53 AM
Honda IACV explained TomO Off-Topic Tech 16 12-21-2015 01:49 AM
Conversion idea, 2L inline 4 -> piston boosted 1.0L 2 banger? Warning....Long thread JoJotheTireMan EcoModding Central 56 06-12-2011 03:09 AM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com