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Old 05-08-2008, 07:43 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Looks like my poor mans Hybrid just might have merit!

I came up with an interesting idea a few months back. I saw a voyager with AWD and though HUH did not know it came like that.

I thought it might be neat to PUT the AWD rear axles in my voyager but not the T case IE add in an electric motor with a simple relay on off switch to boost MPG.

Well it looks like others are thinking the same thing and even have prototypes built!!!

http://tinyurl.com/4dhyhk

Very cool! and retrofitable to ANY FWD car!

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Old 05-08-2008, 07:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Sounds pretty sweet...are you willing to spend the money though?
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Old 05-08-2008, 08:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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$3300 for a kit? NO (plus its damned ugly :-) $400-$500 to do it myself as planned using the AWD axle YES. This just gives me a little extra incentive that if a company is willing to do the R&D to make it happen then that tells me the idea has at least some merit.
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Old 05-08-2008, 10:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Simple relay isn't going to cut it. You'll need a specialized control system for this. The MPG increase comes from:

1. Regenerative braking
2. Being able to move without the engine running
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Old 05-09-2008, 12:00 AM   #5 (permalink)
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The idea (electrically driven rear axles in FWD car) comes up a lot, but I've yet to see anyone implement it, DIY.

I did speak to a guy who did it for fun with an old Tercel 4wd wagon, but it was basically a science project in a junkyard car; I don't think he ever drove it on the road.

JG's right: you'd need much more than a relay. Don't forget batteries too! Either heavy and bulky (lead acid) or super expensive (Lithium).
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Old 05-09-2008, 02:17 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Frank -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
Yet another awesome thing about Tempos: there was an AWD version and it would be SO EASY to power the rear wheels of a FWD model by getting one or two of those hubs!
Ooooooh, and you got the skillzzz to do it!

I really like this because I am "pro-retro-fit". There's too many normal cars out there that could be improved. But the $3300 price tag is steep.

Frank, do you think you could you make this up yourself from your own "kit O'parts"?

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Old 05-09-2008, 05:27 AM   #7 (permalink)
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No a relay is enough. If I do a 72v system I am thinking 3 speed. 24v 48v 72v 3 buttons.

Press button one when maxed press button 2 when maxed press button 3. IF it has enough torque screw all that and just go 72v from the get go. One button.

I am not looking to make an electric car. I have NO expectation of being able to MOVE a 3700 pound minivan on a junkyard EV motor alone. I want to "assist" the ICE enough to dramatically increase fuel economy. Thats all. MAYBE even enough to let me FAS for miles at a time on nice level or sloping terrain at cruise speed. Who Knows :-)

No controllers no nothing. Just "jack" in the power and GO. the "controller adjustment" is the piece of carbon sitting in the drivers seat with his foot on the accelerator :-) IE I adjust the ICE throttle as needed.

I am thinking sickeningly simple here. AWD rear axle DIRECT DRIVE to the Electric Motor.

Motor connected directly to the batteries simple "on/off" via the button controlled relay. Thats it. Heck the drive wires would only need to be 3 feet long as I would put the batteries in the back cargo area directly above where the rear axle is.

I can get junkyard WORKING car batteries for $18 a pop. So $108 in batteries $125 for the axle assembly (complete) and whatever for the EV motor hopefully another junkyard or freebie find. I already have a good 60amp continuous charger on hand. And whatever that beast of a relay is going to cost. the MOMENT I have to think about "controllers" this project is a non starter. I do not have that kind of money.

No Regen. No Pure EV. etc..

IF and ONLY if it proves itself functional THEN I can look into better quality batteries.

Eventually if the MPG gain is sufficient to warrant it I want to go NIMH powered. IF I can figure out a feasible way to CHARGE it I can build a 30amp hour 72volt nimh pack for $900 - Every time I have an extra $300 I can add another 10 amp hours to the pack.

Lithium is not an option for me. Far to expensive Far to unreliable Far to wasteful and far to short lived relative to there cost.

But first I go the $108 junkyard pack path to see if it will even work well enough to be worth the effort. I am seriously going to attempt to do this over the summer. Just got to find a motor :-)
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Old 05-09-2008, 09:53 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Cool idea! That kit would be a bit more sexy if you used wheel skirts instead of just an arm.

I kinda miss my Tempo. You never forget your first ;-)
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Old 05-09-2008, 10:37 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Your idea would be more like half car, half EV, not so much a hybrid. A few points to consider...

1. When the motor is assisting the ICE, it's pushing it down into a less efficient part of the BSFC map. You'll be getting considerably less power from the ICE, but it will only be using a little less fuel.

2. Selectively switching battery banks to get different voltages will discharge them at different rates, and has the potential to even reverse charge them!

I would rather see a well-engineered design than you blowing money and time only to half-ass it and give up after disappointing results.

Remember the Accord Hybrid. Same V6 as the regular Accord (not to mention millions in R&D), just with motors added. Economy was worse than the 4cyl version.
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Old 05-11-2008, 12:07 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I had an idea awhile ago for an electric motor assist. Rather than add another drive axle I thought of just adding a motor to the engine serpentine belt of my truck. Or on a front wheel drive transverse engine have a long shaft and put the motor over the transmission. It would probably have to be a separate stronger belt and pulley.

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