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Old 05-24-2020, 05:25 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Nissan, tesla, GM and ford don't seem to think electric vehicle gear boxes arent such a horrible thing.

I was thinking more along the lines of a heavy highway driven vehicle that will see some water and mud on its hub motors. That's where the problem are.
10 to 12 years ago it seemed like every major OEM wanted to be the first to launch a hub motor electric car, then reality set in. All the hub motors failed rapidly, attempting to improve the design didn't help much, made the hub motors bigger and heavier which made already bad ride quality worse and they did the smart thing and gave up one by one.
Maybe they figure if a truck handles like a forklift not so many people will complain since it's just a truck.
If they aren't trialing hub motors right now and ready to show a hub motor that's as good as a traditional gear box and they're trying to put a product to market in 2021 it's likely going to fail spectacularly.

What I think is going to happen is this company was born to fail.

They launch the hub motors, the hub motors torpedo the company, GM buys it for change on the dollar, redesigns it a little to take a traditional motor and gear box setup.
That way they test the hub motors and if they work great everyone lives happily ever after, if they don't then GM gets to lead the electric truck market with a flag ship factory they bought at fire sale prices and it's nearly impossible for them to lose any money.

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Old 05-24-2020, 11:01 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I gotta agree with Oilpan4 below. I have been following hub motors with interest for 6 or 7 years now, and there seems to be development activity, but not enough. The Orbis Wheel made a big splash at SEMA, attached to the rear wheels of a new Civic Type R for all wheel drive. It *seemed* brilliantly designed, and they were selling kits directly to the market. But they were bought out by investors and have disappeared.

If Lordstown does not have some amazing new tech in thos wheels they will be prohibitively heavy as unsprung weight and not durable.

I wish that were not true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Nissan, tesla, GM and ford don't seem to think electric vehicle gear boxes arent such a horrible thing.

I was thinking more along the lines of a heavy highway driven vehicle that will see some water and mud on its hub motors. That's where the problem are.
10 to 12 years ago it seemed like every major OEM wanted to be the first to launch a hub motor electric car, then reality set in. All the hub motors failed rapidly, attempting to improve the design didn't help much, made the hub motors bigger and heavier which made already bad ride quality worse and they did the smart thing and gave up one by one.
Maybe they figure if a truck handles like a forklift not so many people will complain since it's just a truck.
If they aren't trialing hub motors right now and ready to show a hub motor that's as good as a traditional gear box and they're trying to put a product to market in 2021 it's likely going to fail spectacularly.

What I think is going to happen is this company was born to fail.

They launch the hub motors, the hub motors torpedo the company, GM buys it for change on the dollar, redesigns it a little to take a traditional motor and gear box setup.
That way they test the hub motors and if they work great everyone lives happily ever after, if they don't then GM gets to lead the electric truck market with a flag ship factory they bought at fire sale prices and it's nearly impossible for them to lose any money.
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Old 05-24-2020, 12:23 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
What I think is going to happen is this company was born to fail.

They launch the hub motors, the hub motors torpedo the company, GM buys it for change on the dollar, redesigns it a little to take a traditional motor and gear box setup.
That way they test the hub motors and if they work great everyone lives happily ever after, if they don't then GM gets to lead the electric truck market with a flag ship factory they bought at fire sale prices and it's nearly impossible for them to lose any money.
That's impressively cynical ... and likely how it will play out

Hub motors always sound like such an obvious solution.

[Begin sarcasm]
Maybe this requires some alternate thinking? Make them LIGHTER ... and CHEAPER ... don't worry about wear. Design them to be changed WITH the tires, and make them easily recyclable. Build one into your SPARE so you're carrying one around with you!
[end sarcasm]
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Old 05-24-2020, 06:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Hub motors work great in appropriate applications.
Perfect for big low speed applications. But as the vehicle speed increases and weight decreases the hub motors need to decrease in size fast to the point where they are more of a secondary mode of propulsion.

The slowest, weakest mass produced electric vehicle made, the first Gen Nissan leaf will put down nearly 2,000 foot pounds of torque to the wheels. The truck will struggle to make 2,000ft lb from all 4 wheels.
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Old 05-24-2020, 07:58 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by California98Civic View Post
Hub motors are such a cool idea. As soon as I saw that I was curious... but their tech limits the truck to 80 mph. They say that is a software limit but it seems like it might be a software limit because it is the hub motors limit. How many people will want a truck that tops out at 80?
Well, for example in Finland you're legally allowed to go 75mph and only on the motorway.
I'm just wondering why would someone want to go faster than 80mph with a pickup truck?
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Old 05-24-2020, 08:06 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iikhod View Post
Well, for example in Finland you're legally allowed to go 75mph and only on the motorway.
I'm just wondering why would someone want to go faster than 80mph with a pickup truck?
To make insurance rates higher for everyone who doesn't.
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:25 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by iikhod View Post
I'm just wondering why would someone want to go faster than 80mph with a pickup truck?
My wife suggests that it a physical endowment thing: mine is bigger, better, more expensive, (whatever) than yours.
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Old 05-25-2020, 06:00 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsko View Post
My wife suggests that it a physical endowment thing: mine is bigger, better, more expensive, (whatever) than yours.
Yeah my wife says I'm compensating with the leaf
I like to park next to the gigantic lifted pickups, I hope it makes them feel bigger, I'm just there for the shade.
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Old 05-25-2020, 06:25 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Considering that most pickups in the US could easily be swapped out with Corollas equipped with Manly Driver bumper stickers, who cares about the hauling capacity?
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Old 05-25-2020, 11:35 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Nissan, tesla, GM and ford don't seem to think electric vehicle gear boxes arent such a horrible thing.
In fact they're not such a horrible thing, but if some consolidated technologies were supposed to be irreplaceable we would probably be still riding horses or in a best-case scenario resorting to some jalopy.


Quote:
I was thinking more along the lines of a heavy highway driven vehicle that will see some water and mud on its hub motors. That's where the problem are.
That's a matter of concern, but shouldn't be treated as an excuse to simply leave hub motors behind.

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