Losing Earth:The Decade We Almost .......

[Xist]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Adding energy increases chaos.

Like giving sugar to children?

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by aerohead

'teleconferenced' the whole meeting and skip the air travel altogether.

That's what I was thinking too, but they probably didn't want anyone being able to listen in or recording everything they talked about, a good portion likely had nothing to do with saving the world. Probably had something more in the neighborhood of making the proletariat live off less and ensure those worthy of the conference and their handlers having more.

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

I hope they are right about global warming.
The cooling periods are what killed off large numbers of people.

The world ban on R-11 didn't have a cause to exempt china. R-11 is one of the big Ozone destroying CFCs.

The Paris climate thing was a scam.
The United States has environmental laws and enforces them and we are reducing CO2 production.
While germany, China and Japan appear to be increasing CO2 production. If Japan isn't hasn't increased CO2 it looks like they are set to, by being afraid to restart their nuclear reactors. Their bright idea is to burn Chinese coal for power production.

We will see more warming that ever before in human existence.

It doesn't excuse what we do, if others are not doing the right thing.

But, many of them are doing the right thing. China has more to do than any of us - and they are doing more than most.

[oil pan 4]

Not likely.
Around 14,000 years ago ice melted and put an area about the size of Russia and Europe under water. It also happened fast at the highest point of melt the sea level may have been rising by nearly 1 foot per year.
Now everyoneis freaking out over 2ft of sea level rise in 100 years. We aren't going to see anything on the scale of what happened at the end of the last ice age until the next ice age starts.

China is doing more, they eclipse us in current CO2 production and are still projected to continue to grow their CO2 production for up to another 50 years before leveling off. The entire developed world is projected to produce more CO2 in the coming years. Germany and Japan are all of a sudden afraid of nuclear power so they won't use nuclear out of fear and ignorance. Germany is making up for that energy by burning natural gas from Russia and Japan is making up their nuclear power gap by burning coal from china.

The US is already past peak CO2 and has been declining since 2006. The United States is already doing our part.
It would seem the rest of the world stopped believing in man made climate change in favor of cheap power.

[NeilBlanchard]

There is not going to be another ice age for a very, very, very long time. We are warming a lot - even with a lower than expected output from the sun.

That ice that melted 14,000 years ago is still melted - and now virtually all ice on earth is melting; faster and faster.

Nuclear power is the dumbest way possible to boil water. It takes at least 20-30 years of construction / deconstruction to get 50 years of production. And we have poisonous and radioactive waste that will be here for tens of thousands of years.

Just great!

[oil pan 4]

Good.
Hopefully it stays melted.
With out global warming the next ice age could start anytime between now and no more than 1,000 years for now. Looking at the ice core data says we are probably over due.

Radioactive waste only stays dangerous for thousands of years when it's not recycled. Try not to base everything you know about something on lies, fear and propaganda.

Germany and Japan already proved what happens when the reactors are turned off and stay off. If it were possible Germany would have gladly committed economic suicide to go to solar and wind power but the solar panels to do it don't exist and wind can't be built and put up fast enough. They proved nuclear can't be replaced by wind and solar, maybe with 20 or 30 years lead time.

[freebeard]

On 20010911 we learned what happens when you ground all the airliners.

When you hear about the dangers of geo-engineering, think about the covert governmental programs to seed the atmosphere with chemtails of who-knows-what to combat anthropogenic global warming, when it's the only thing staving off the glaciers.

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Nuclear power is the dumbest way possible to boil water. It takes at least 20-30 years of construction / deconstruction to get 50 years of production. And we have poisonous and radioactive waste that will be here for tens of thousands of years.

Just great!

Yet, the same people who believe in the cleanliness of solar and wind ignore the huge waste streams implied in the production and maintenance of these renewable sources.

Nuclear power is in an infant stage. What? Yes, the power plants in the majority of the worlds nuclear collection are half a century old! Modern designs will be more compact and produce lower volumes of waste.

Much of the cost of construction is due to legislation and protest. If we could modularize and standardize components costs would come down drastically instead of a custom construct for each plant. Also, the costs of security could be better distributed if reprocessing of spent fuel was done on-site.

And waste? The fearful populace forces the governmental overseers to err on the side of overt caution. Chernobyl's fall out zone has radiation below background over most of the outlying fallout area. It is still a forbidden zone. And Chernobyl was a stupid design. Why has radiation fallen so low so fast if the nuclear waste lasts thousands of years? Just like Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the really bad stuff is gone in a matter of years. Stuff like cesium and iodine are awful as they are ingested and retained. But, they have short half-life spans. 30 years or less. Modern nuclear power plants can avoid fission paths that minimize the more dangerous trans-uranics. The activated metals that make up the structure of a reactor can be simply simply stored on site until they "cool down".

For the giga-watts of power a nuclear reactor can produce in it's lifetime, the waste is small in comparison.

I dare you to find out the recycling costs of many square kilometers worth of solar cells and millions of wind and tidal generators and compare that to a few thousand tons of easily handled nuclear "waste".

And you can find a thousand years worth of nuclear fuel on most continents. Better yet, the ocean holds another thousand years or so of nuclear fuel dissolved in it's trillions of tons of water with the theorized replacement from undersea magma up-wellings from the earths core.

Practical fusion power may not happen in our lifetimes, but practical fission power should.

[gone-ot]

The US military played with "weather" quite a bit in SEAsia in 1960-1970's.

[oil pan 4]

I read a DoE report years ago, published well before I was born saying that when the unwanted nuclear waste isotopes are removed from nuclear fuel that they lose 99.9% of their radioactivity after 40 years then at 200 years it's only marginally above background.
The belief that all nuclear waste always stays furiously radioactive for thousands of years is nothing more than sensational lies and ignorance.
It will stay very dangerous for thousands of years if the 90% of useable fuel and the less than 10% of waste isotopes contaminating the fuel are not separated from each other.
Trust me you can't even comprehend how dangerous spent nuclear fuel is.
If people had the faintest idea how dangerous this stuff is they would demand it be recycled immediately and any one who tried to stop the recycling process be jailed and charged as a terrorist.