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Old 08-17-2018, 05:07 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
And what would those waste streams be?
Wind turbines have large gear boxes and big powerful hydraulic systems to pitch the blades and rotate the nacell.
That oil doesn't last the life of the wind turbine.

Mono crystalline solar panels use silicon crystals doped with rare earth elements. Exactly which elements and how much are tightly guarded trade secrets. The problem with these is how they are mined and whats left over. For every pound of useable rare earth elements that are brought to the surface you get about the same amount of unwanted radioactive waste. The water used in the brineing operations is also contaminated with radioactivity.

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Old 08-17-2018, 11:04 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Still, we think the primary interconnections in World3 are good representations of the important causal mechanisms in human society. Those interconnections, not the precise numbers, determine the model's general behavior. As a consequence, we do have faith in the dynamic behaviors generated by World3.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genera...sarial_network
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Generative adversarial networks are a class of artificial intelligence algorithms used in unsupervised machine learning, implemented by a system of two neural networks contesting with each other in a zero-sum game framework. They were introduced by Ian Goodfellow et al. in 2014.
Things are different since 2014.
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Old 08-18-2018, 11:16 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Old 08-20-2018, 12:56 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Wind turbines have large gear boxes and big powerful hydraulic systems to pitch the blades and rotate the nacell.
That oil doesn't last the life of the wind turbine.

Mono crystalline solar panels use silicon crystals doped with rare earth elements. Exactly which elements and how much are tightly guarded trade secrets. The problem with these is how they are mined and whats left over. For every pound of useable rare earth elements that are brought to the surface you get about the same amount of unwanted radioactive waste. The water used in the brineing operations is also contaminated with radioactivity.
State of the art wind turbines are direct drive. Transmissions are heavy and prone to breaking.

You have heard of synthetic oil, I assume. We can get oil for lubricants from many renewable sources.

Solar panels can be recycled. And we are making news types.

Where's your concern for the massive waste streams from fossil fuels?
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Old 08-21-2018, 01:48 AM   #55 (permalink)
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As far as I can tell old solar panels are stripped of aluminum and copper then the glass and cells are ground up and added to pavement.

Virtually all synthetic oil use some sort of petroleum as the fees stock.

Only the Mitsubishi wind turbines had weak transmissions.

Direct drive wind turbines are a bad idea. The generator is huge. Even a little 1mw direct drive wind turbine is huge compared to a 2.5mw wind turbine generator.
So now you build 1mw wind turbines that use more copper than 2.5mw wind turbines.

We know what fossil fuel pollution is and looks like. For some reason people like to pretend renewable power creates no waste and no pollution.
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Old 08-30-2018, 11:59 AM   #56 (permalink)
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renewable pollution

Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
As far as I can tell old solar panels are stripped of aluminum and copper then the glass and cells are ground up and added to pavement.

Virtually all synthetic oil use some sort of petroleum as the fees stock.

Only the Mitsubishi wind turbines had weak transmissions.

Direct drive wind turbines are a bad idea. The generator is huge. Even a little 1mw direct drive wind turbine is huge compared to a 2.5mw wind turbine generator.
So now you build 1mw wind turbines that use more copper than 2.5mw wind turbines.

We know what fossil fuel pollution is and looks like. For some reason people like to pretend renewable power creates no waste and no pollution.
I've been around commercial/industrial manufacturing and everything was subject to pollution controls.You can't even pour concrete without ASTM testing in this country.
Industrial hygienists were present,and monitoring.
The companies were subject to State and Federal snap inspections.
Hazardous waste had a chain of custody reaching back to every originator.
I got the distinct impression that there weren't going to be any new 'Superfund' sites created.
I've heard people slam alternative energy producers for decades on this subject,and I've never seen any evidentiary,empirical bonafides provided to support the argument.
It may be true that hazardous materials are used in manufacturing,but they're subject to either recycling,or disposal at heavily regulated and approved 'HEAT' disposal sites.
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Old 08-30-2018, 01:51 PM   #57 (permalink)
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They are now making 12MW wind turbines. They cost less and are more efficient - with wind, scaling up helps.

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