Lower "forever" oil prices?

[redpoint5]

It makes sense to bury the lines in more densely populated areas and countries. The US is relatively sprawling and less dense, so we make more use of above ground lines. We are a geographically larger country than most, so our grid is more complex than most.

[rdefayette]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

Time to "bring back" the original hand-operated gasoline pumps from history? At least as 'emergengy / backup'?

People today can't change a flat tire and now they'd have to figure this out?

[rdefayette]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

The grid breaks down because it can break down. There has only been invested so much in it. Once it becomes the only system of redistributing energy, time and money must be spent to make it disaster proof.

In Holland the low voltage grid is >99,9% underground and even the high voltage lines are slowly but steadily moving out of sight.
As a result grid failures are quite infrequent over here; one of the last big ones was caused by an Apache helicopter...

Would it be a stupid idea to put all the main electric lines in the southern coastal area and tornado alley underground?

Underground lines are great so long as the system is watertight. Florida, for example, just had Hurricane Irma go through with a LOT of flooding from the storm surge. 2 problems arise with Florida in particular when it comes to "the grid"/power distribution of any kind. 1) over head lines can be brought down by high winds and trees falling during a hurricane. 2) The storm surge and subsequent flooding will cause just as much if not more damage than the winds themselves due to improved construction techniques/building codes and hurricane "resistant" building products. The problem with the underground lines in coastal regions, such as Florida, that see any type of frequent flooding is the underground electric distribution system does NOT fare too well when saltwater is introduced into the equation. Buried/underground transformers (even those placed on ground level pads) electric lines/cables, etc and saltwater are a combination that that leads to power outages if not during the storm but "short"ly (pun intended) thereafter.

[Hersbird]

But what if the ICE was really dead? Meaning even the utility repair trucks and the semis bringing supplies were electric and needed recharged? Generators also powered by ICEs were also gone and only solar and wind could recharge them? People would be eating each other within a month while they still were waiting for relief. At least the green, zero carbon, USS Ronald Reagan could come to the rescue.

[lasitter]

Originally Posted by sendler

Then we can finally phase in a big carbon tax to pay for the transition to EV's and renewables.

Wife is lovin' her recently acquired Chevy Bolt. Our solar panels are covering all of that vehicle's needs ...

[Grant-53]

A carbon tax is currently more about government control than stopping thermal pollution. In my situation an electric car is not realistic in terms of range and purchase price. If solar and wind work for you that's great. Geography and weather patterns vary from county to county so a one size fits all plan is not possible. Here micro- hydro electric power and natural gas diesel buses with bike racks work best. Yes, we will have to revisit nuclear power too. We are used to pumping fuel from tanks in the back of pick up trucks to run irrigation pumps. We can revert to wood gas and bio diesel if the need arises. The reason rural people use trucks is because the roads are often dirt. Snow requires a higher ground clearance. Farmers are shifting to diesel trucks and drilling their own gas wells. Some are using solar panels for milking operations that need reliable power. If you are a Leftist then join a co-op. The rest of us prefer to make other arrangements.

[rdefayette]

What'll happen to this forum if only battery powered cars exist? change the name to "Battery Miser"? How to pull fuses to kill everything in the car except for the power train? How to operate without wipers, lights, heater, A/C, defrost, radio, GPS, don't charge the phone in the car? Now I can get 15% better range than the factory says I should be able to get. I love being devils advocate.

[Xist]

Originally Posted by jakobnev

And high mpg cars are cheaper than low mpg cars, further making it nonsensical to call it a tax on the poor.

This is a Camaro, but only has a 2L engine, and they are asking $20,342: https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...7725/overview/

That sounds pretty cheap [for a new car] to me.

It is only rated 25 MPG average, though.

[Grant-53]

Any sales tax on a commodity is regressive. Yes I studied economics in school and yes I live well below the national poverty level. Rational governments will strive to hold down the cost of commodity goods to ensure political stability. Value management is what we use in weighing our needs or wants and establishing priorities based on our available resources. Pollution is a limiting factor. Not every decision is rational. I was stopped behind a big blue Toyota Highlander with a bumper sticker which read "Save the TA TA s" when the female driver flicked a cigarette butt out the window. Hmmm
Those who are familiar with greenhouse design understand heat transfer and micro climate. Sendler lives about 100 miles from me along the lake plain so the snow fall is greater there. Politics are different too. Elmira is Republican and Ithaca at the other end of the spectrum. We may tease a bit but both have good ideas to share. The trick is being aware of the objective realities we face.

[stefanv]

Originally Posted by rdefayette

What'll happen to this forum if only battery powered cars exist? change the name to "Battery Miser"?

I'm pretty sure that many of the eco-driving techniques we talk about here (not getting into a race to the next stop light, accelerating at some optimum speed, don't drive too fast, ...) will improve energy economy of electric cars too. I bet there's a wide range of ranges that people get out of a given electric car.