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Old 10-17-2010, 12:11 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unheard View Post
Audi did also bring out a 3L A2 but they only sold around 6,000. The 1.4 is a very tuneable engine. As you say the good thing is they have good power but still return fantastic FE.
I remember the A2 3L but wasn't aware they had a production run. Just assumed it was a concept! I bet they're worth a few bob, since the normal A2s hold their value pretty well. I think they've pretty much bottomed out in value and you still need £3-4k for one.

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The A2 is still up there with some of the best currently being sold in terms of MPG.
An issue of Autocar a few months back compared the A2 1.4 TDI 90bhp with the current Polo Bluemotion. Both 3-cyl TDI, both "quality" small cars.

Their verdict was something along the lines of that the Audi is one of the best small cars available on the market today, and that you can only buy it second-hand just makes it cheaper. Not a bad verdict for something that was released ten years ago. Not many other small cars have stood the test of time that well.

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Its such a shame just think of all those fantastic TDIs that must have been scraped under the scrappage scheme. A well maintained TDI has only just broken in at 100k its the body and electrics that tend to die first you could also look at seat and skoda as they are both VAG with the same engines
Yeah, been keeping my eye on the market. Nearly bought a 1.9 TDI SEAT Cordoba this time last year for about £1200. Was very nice to drive and SEAT quote something ridiculous like 75mpg on the extra-urban cycle. My current daily-driver budget is only £500 though so I think the only VAG diesels that'll sneak under will be 15+ years old!

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I was just looking at the smart Cdi engine specs the other day. It would make a fantastic power plant for a wv 1L inspired cockpit layout car. Its something i would love to do if i had a garage.
I seem to remember something called the Jetcar a few years back. A german company was taking the running gear out of old Smarts and putting them in a tandem two-seater layout with a fighter-jet style cockpit.

In fact, this is it:



They were quoting an economy improvement over the regular Smart back then, so with the Cdi diesel engine I reckon 100mpg wouldn't be out of the question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piwoslaw View Post
A hypermiler's dream would be to ditch the auto trans. Were there any produced with a manual? I've seen ads for 3L's with a manual transmission, I wonder if that's not just the owner not knowing. Though in one picture of the cabin the stick did look like a manual. I also read on some forum that someone did a swap.
Would a regular manual be any more efficient, seeing as the one in the 3L is just an automated manual anyway? I know torque converters are inefficient but in theory an automated manual shouldn't be any worse than a regular manual. That is, unless you'd plan to do all the usual hypermiling tricks rather than just driving it normally.

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Old 10-18-2010, 10:12 AM   #22 (permalink)
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There is a Lupo 3L currently up for sale on UK Ebay. Considering the very low milage it's fantastic @ the buy it now price!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/03-VW-LUPO-3L-1-2-DIESEL-AUTO-LHD-100MPG-ROAD-TAX-FREE
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Old 10-18-2010, 12:00 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piwoslaw View Post
Thanks for all the info!

I've been looking for a deal on the Lupo 3L for over a year now, but their price doesn't seem to go down over time One of the worst things I've seen in a used car lot was a 3L tuned for performance. That's one efficient car less

I read somewhere (lost the link) that the 3L's engine is so efficient that it needs the help of an electric heater in the winter.

A hypermiler's dream would be to ditch the auto trans. Were there any produced with a manual? I've seen ads for 3L's with a manual transmission, I wonder if that's not just the owner not knowing. Though in one picture of the cabin the stick did look like a manual. I also read on some forum that someone did a swap.


Ah, but the fun is not about not using a lot of fuel, it's about using even less
It is not just a 3L thing all TDIs hold there value and tabel off and for good reason really because they are worth that value. What sort of price are you looking at and where have you looked?

People Know there is no point in selling the car below a certain point as they can brake the car and make more that way. If it had not been for me buying it i really do not think my car would have stayed in one piece for long. For £500 someone could have made at the very least 2K on the parts.

The only other option i can see that would get you close is to what the 3L can do in such a neat car is to get a smart CDi and aero mode the crap out of it with a boat tail

It does have an electric heater but i do not think that is so uncommon anymore. It was likely one of the first to have that but as diesels have become more efficient it takes quite some time to get heat flowing into the cabin when it's cold.

You would have to have stunning hypermiling skills to do better than the 3Ls computer. VW designed it with this system to be better than a human as it has all the sensorts to tell it what exactly is going on and in relation to that what is the best gear to be in. The 3L hypermiles for you when you lift off so there would be no need to get rid of the auto just work with it as intended. Of cause it can be converted to a stick shift and there is a topic on the subject on clublupo.de i think it is. I have only looked at the pictures but apart form the ECU needing some different software i don't think looks its such a hard mod. I cant see much point in doing that as the auto is what most people find so amazing about the car. No joke it feels like you have a monkey under the hood shifting for you. It is at first a very strange experience and i half expected if i had jumped out and poped the hood i would find a cheeky little monkey there grinning back at me.

Come for a holiday in London / Surrey and try to get a significant gain from all your hypermiling skills you will soon tire . In more centralised London stop start is the only feature that will benefit you greatly other than an already very efficient car. Around Surrey you really do find keeping on the power in the right gear will net you a better return that trying to coast. There is hardly a stretch of road i can think of that is flat or particularly straight for very long its all over the place. When you coast you do not have the power to pull you around corners or up hills so where ever you gain you just go and lose it again due to the nature of the roads. People Love diesels here for a reason they have so much pull at low rpm so you can keep on the power as the roads require and still get a fantastic return. Obviously if you are na eco driver you will get more out of the 3L than someone who is not but you do not have to go to all the effort to get that gain as you would in a stick shift

VAG have heavily invested in DSG now and its not a gimmick hardly anyone can shift a stick and get the gains that can be had form the DSG box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robchalmers View Post
How big is the 3L's fuel tank? mine is a paultry 45litres including reserve, but that will last 9days with 5-6 of those commuting.
I am sure its 34L my Sport gets around 200 -250 miles before i chicken out and fill the tank but that is anything but eco. I have not yet run the 3L until the light comes on as i just fill her up as and when i am in a good place to fill up. As the fuel goes so slowly i feel its not a bad idea to have fresh fuel going in regularly just to inhibit any bacterial growth how ever slim the chances of that happening i just do it as 'good practice'
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Old 10-18-2010, 12:02 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Hi All, I am the seller of the 3L mentioned above. Unheard kindly contacted me as he thought his fellow Ecomodders might appreciate knowing if I would be willing to cooperate with a US purchaser? I would be more than happy to do so but only to (current) Ecomodder members, Many Thanks, Mark
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Old 10-18-2010, 01:29 PM   #25 (permalink)
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god I wish I wasn't a pauper!!!
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Old 10-20-2010, 02:19 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unheard View Post
It is not just a 3L thing all TDIs hold there value and tabel off and for good reason really because they are worth that value. What sort of price are you looking at and where have you looked?
I've been looking at internet auctions here in Poland (most of the cars were imported from Germany or France at some point, since 3L wasn't very popular here when new). The prices are 12k-18k PLN (about $4k-6k US) with 120k-220k km on the odo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unheard View Post
The only other option i can see that would get you close is to what the 3L can do in such a neat car is to get a smart CDi and aero mode the crap out of it with a boat tail
We're also looking at Peugeot 106's. They are at the other end of the technology scale, but are 3-4 times cheaper and not much heavier, and have a larger trunk. No matter what we get, I will ecomod the crap out of it!
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[Old] Piwoslaw's Peugeot 307sw modding thread
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Old 10-20-2010, 05:53 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I'd still think a aeromodded 1.7sdi arosa/lupo would get pretty close on a long run. I think you could go sub 3.3/3.2 barrier

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classifi...54ld?logcode=p
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Old 10-20-2010, 01:16 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Now is a good time to buy a Vw Lupo 3L, cheapest are under 2000€. Hopefully at next summer you could buy aerobody kit to it . My firms first show car will be Lupo 3L and my target is to be under 2L @ 60 MPH or 100 km/h. And I will start selling bodykits to it.
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Old 10-20-2010, 05:43 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piwoslaw View Post
I've been looking at internet auctions here in Poland (most of the cars were imported from Germany or France at some point, since 3L wasn't very popular here when new). The prices are 12k-18k PLN (about $4k-6k US) with 120k-220k km on the odo.
They can be quite expensive.
The European Marketplace for Used Cars and New Cars has the option to search in many EU countries.

If looks are not important, you can get a dinged one cheaper.
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Old 10-20-2010, 07:51 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vekke View Post
Now is a good time to buy a Vw Lupo 3L, cheapest are under 2000€. Hopefully at next summer you could buy aerobody kit to it . My firms first show car will be Lupo 3L and my target is to be under 2L @ 60 MPH or 100 km/h. And I will start selling bodykits to it.
WOW sign me up for one of those. I had been looking to see if anyone had actually modified the 3L to get further gains but never came up with anything.

Are they being developed in a wind tunnel or anything? What do you see the kit including?

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